Woman kicked off Delta flight after accusing pilot of drinking

Mouth wash, after shave, cologne all routinely contain Alcohol. Stain removers also sometimes contain alcohol. It sounds like the crass actions of a traffic cop trying to keyhole someone into a illegal DUI arrest.

Hard to tell what actually happened and how the woman behaved.

But, punishing someone for raising a question has its risks. Will other passengers who "see something" decide not to "say something"? If so, we'll all be less safe.

Well they couldn't kick out the pilot.

I think Delta handled this very poorly. By not proving the passengers' concern to be false and ordering the one passenger off the plane, the public now is left to wonder if the airline covered up for the pilot who was drinking. Afterall, he would have had to deplane, the flight would leave the gate quite late as they would have to wait for a replacement. Departing on time seems very important to the airlines. The questions this incident raises is very concerning and doesn't make one feel secure that pilots are never drinking.

@Joe,
I think you mean they would not want to kick out the pilot and wait for a replacement. But certainly they CAN kick out the pilot.

@Smith in Oregon,
If it were one of the possibilities you suggest, then simply come forth with that information; case closed at that point. Again too many questions raised by the way it was handled.

The woman who complained continued to carry on about her accusation after the pilot had been cleared. At this point she was interfering with the aircrew, and is lucky that she was treated as well as she should. She should have spent the night in jail for interfering with a flight crew. Accusing a pilot of drinking is a serious allegation not to be taken lightly because it not only upsets the crew, but the rest of the passengers. Once the pilot was cleared, that should have been the end of it, but she persisted to make noise about it. Bottom line: she was just trying to get something for nothing. Remember the $1MM lawsuit against McDonalds for spilled hot coffee? People still seek out any avenue to which they can file a frivolus lawsuit. Tort reform would stop this type of crap.

I would not be surprised if this woman was a MADD member. The once noble organization is now run by fanatics, yes you read correctly, fanatics! How could I say such a thing? The original founder of MADD was booted out by other senior members because they felt she was not harsh enough with drunk drivers, even those only slightly over the limit and not involved in an accident or speeding. Go figure. MADD's ultimate goal is plain and simple, Prohibition II. My viewpoint may not be politically correct, but the facts speak for themselves.

There is no date and time of this incident as reporrted as news. Anyway, I wonder wether this woman is glad or angry that she is not on that plane. It seems that she is angry because she is contacting a lawyer (to sue?).

@Chris
The thought that Delta would cover up the fact that a pilot had been drinking is the most ridiculous allegation anyone could make. This sort of thing is taken incredibly seriously by both flight crew, and the airlines. If he had decided not to get tested, and she later told someone about it, he would have lost his job, and Delta would be in some serious trouble. Airlines in the US have an unbelievable safety record, and have alcohol policies strictly enforced by the government.

Because so many lives are at risk due to pilot judgment error, I would hope Delta Airlines at least give the pilots a breathalyzer which only takes one minute to conduct. In this situation, being conservative would be best practice. I also think Delta Airlines handled this situation poorly.

She had every right to be concerned. I would want to know something like that before going up in the sky.

What this pilot SHOULD have done IF he wasn't drinking would have been to REMOVE himself from the airplane and submitted to a breath test & blood work.. WHY being a Pilot would you EVER want this thought to be with anyone in this business.. There were MORE THAN ONE PASSENGER that thought about this too.. Surprised others didn't excuse themselves off the plane too..

I think this woman has a very good lawsuit ahead of her..

If you thought your bus driver was drinking, the police would be called.. Or if your Taxi Driver.. Same thing.

Now why JUST because it is an airplane the same tests are not applied???????

Delta acted correctly. This woman was acting in such a way that she could have started a panic in close quarters. The pilots and cabin crew are responsible for every life on board that plane, and THAT takes precedance over one person's hissy fit.

Maybe they over reacted, but I'm sure glad they did, and I stand by my statement.

Even after they cleared the pilot, she kept on complaining about it that's why they took her off the plane and scheduled her for a diff flight. After she made her complaint she should have shut her mouth, they didn't want her to start a panic. then it would have been chaos for everyone.

My comments are very often removed, as this one was. I will repost it but it will undoubtedly be removed for unknown reasons. No cuss words, no slanderous remarks, no posting violations of any kind, yet my posts vanish. Apparently my viewpoint must not be aligned with CNN and I have been flagged for removal.
I don’t know what Ms. Angel’s motive was for this stunt, but she has already begun the litigation process. There’s a big surprise. Ms. Angel did not smell alcohol on the Captain’s breath because his BAC was zero. This appears to be just another overzealous reactionist do-gooder. Her story doesn’t hold water. She will most likely lose her law suit and she will probably think twice before making such a serious false accusation again. If a crew member is suspected of or accused of being under the influence, a mandatory alcohol and drug test must be performed before the pilot is released back to duty. Had the pilot had ANY traces of alcohol in his system, he would have immediately been removed from duty with serious consequences to follow. Airline Pilots are subject to random mandatory drug and alcohol testing and this testing can be performed at any time after a pilot signs in for a trip. Very few pilots will risk losing their difficult to obtain career by being under the influence. A pilot must also be extremely careful as to what type of over the counter meds he or she takes. Even eating a poppy seed muffin can cause problems during testing.

without being there, i cannot comment on the situation.....but sounds like the lady was concerned for her saftey, and might have acted out.

@ Waves
You stated:
"Even eating a poppy seed muffin can cause problems during testing."

That is incorrect and a fallacy. I was part of a research team who conducted an investigation regarding poppy seed muffins and if they would test positive for opioids. You have no idea how many poppy seed muffins we ate. We were all sick to our stomach from eating poppy seed muffins and no one tested positive for opioids. What we finally had to do in order to have a positive on a drug test was to eat a huge amount of poppy seed dough with triple the amount of poppy seeds. If you do not believe this story, you can contact University of California, Irvine Medical Center – Lab.

To Jason Asselin: Your post is completely wrong. This passenger triggered a mandatory Drug and Alcohol Test, and unnecessarily delayed all of the passengers. The pilot didn’t have to remove himself from the flight because that is done for him until a test has been performed with a negative result.

If this women was that concerned about her pilot even after being tested,
why didn't she remove herself from the plane. Why? obviously she enjoyed the attention and saw the money signs.

The women quietly brought her concern to the head flight attendent, who took her to speak privately with the copilot. The copilot reassured the woman that he had been with the pilot for several hours and that no drinking had occured. The woman accepted this explanation and quietly returned to her seat, speaking with no one, ready to finish her flight home.

She was then escorted off the plane and questioned by officials from the airline, and then allowed to return to her seat on the plane, only to then finally be booted off the flight against her will by airport security.

All you people claiming that she deserved her treatment because she was "making a scene" or "starting a panic" when in reality she never even spoke to any other passengers that didn't already share her concern need to learn the facts before you start making up your own version of the story.

It's good to defend the airline, but why didn't the airline confirm what it was that this woman and others did smell. It would seem that would resolve any outstanding questions.

She absolutely should not have been kicked off the plane. People on on board a flight should be allowed to raise any concerns they have without fear of this kind of reprisal. What if the woman had been correct? She would have been a hero.

This woman was doing just what I would expect any sane concerned person would do , especially if I were on the flight. Its too bad that this poor pilot got his feelings hurt and couldnt conduct himself in a professional manner.He should have thanked the woman for being so concerned for her well being as well as the other passengers. Just what if the pilot was drinking and crashed and killed hundreds of people? Better safe than sorry. This airline should give this passenger free flights for life!! BTW the pilot should offer a public apology!

The Captain is the final authority over his aircraft, and is PIC. He or she has the total final decision for the safety of the flight.

She obviously made him feel humiliated and upset.

Satefy is the final mission, the pilotCaptains should not command a large jet with mulpitlal pax...if they are upset!?!

Perhap they should have changed the crew...but, I think it is great he kicked her butt off!

Mary
Retired Corporate Jet Captain

If a parent smells alcohol on a bus drivers breath they wouldn't hesitate reporting them because they are in charge of the lives of countless children, why should pilot's be treated any different. They hold the lives of hundreds of passengers and even civilians on the ground in their hands every day. If a passenger smells alcohol they should speak up, their life may depend on it, and no she should not have been kicked off the flight for reporting a concern, she wanted to make sure she lived to see tomorrow.

What ever happened to the airlines following proper protocol and conducting immediate investigations when these types of allegations are raised. Instead, it easier just to ignore the customer's concerns and remove them from the flight.
At least the pilot wasn't sleeping...

Pilots have just as much right to throw wackos off their airplane as the wackos do to falsely accuse a pilot of being drunk. Good for Delta for standing behind their flight crew.
I hope that this DOES make passengers think twice before they go half-cocked making false accusations about their air crew. And I think that this incident should remind passengers that if you start acting crazy on an airplane or at the airport, that there will be consequences to pay.

To Awacsacft: Sorry, but your comment clearly shows that you haven't the foggiest idea about what airline protocol or procedure is. Because you jumped to a false conclusion without any facts, just like Ms. Angel did, I will give you a brief synopsis on the subject. Whenever any other person, whether it be another crew member, passenger, or employee, etc. has reasonable suspicion that a crew member is under the influence, and brings it to the attention of the authorities, this will immediately trigger as a minimum a sobriety test for that crew member and possibly even others. If the test is positive and shows ANY alcohol or any prohibited drugs, the ramification to the crew member is staggering: Immediate removal from duty, probable termination, huge fines and penalties, possibly years of imprisonment, and even a felony conviction. If the test is negative, then time permitting the crew member MAY be returned to duty. Even when the allegations have no merit, they are always investigated to the fullest extent. So you see, this passenger’s concerns were not ignored as you have falsely stated. Secondly, there are very good reasons why the Captain rightfully removed Ms. Angel from this flight, but then you aren’t alone on jumping to a false conclusion on that issue. This and many other threads regarding this subject are full of them as well. Thirdly, the NWA’s crew was not sleeping, but don’t even get me started on that one. Ha

To nina1fox: I absolutely do beleive you. I have heard it both ways. The most recent is that if one pops positive because of poppy seeds, they can retest more specifically for the opiate. I appreciate your correction and your research on the subject. I'm glad to know I can now have a poppy seed bagel with my coffee and not have to worry about it.

@nina1fox

@ Waves
You stated:
"Even eating a poppy seed muffin can cause problems during testing."

That is incorrect and a fallacy. I was part of a research team who conducted an investigation regarding poppy seed muffins and if they would test positive for opioids. You have no idea how many poppy seed muffins we ate. We were all sick to our stomach from eating poppy seed muffins and no one tested positive for opioids. What we finally had to do in order to have a positive on a drug test was to eat a huge amount of poppy seed dough with triple the amount of poppy seeds. If you do not believe this story, you can contact University of California, Irvine Medical Center – Lab.

One under-cooked muffin, triple the poppy seeds...what a malodorous contradiction your blog blatantly exudes. @Waves is correct and you even supported his statement...Let me guess..a devout right wing Christian of repudiation and confusion..perfect !!! What part of the research team did you compile...cleanup?

@Chris

Beyond the humiliation and now a history of possible drug/alcohol use the pilot has to live with and function in, the only way for him to regain composure and his dignity would be to boot the mistaken passenger from his aircraft...GREAT RESPONSE on his part and guess what...it's as common as accusation's made...and justified! His only error was not commencing her passenger right's at altitude...

@Waves

Sometimes one has to look for the fly poo in the pepper to discover where definition and deliverance divide. @nina1fox is a contradiction on multiple counts and apparently was schooled long before nanograms found their way into Webster's. Just paint her with right-wing Christian dialog and she will 'shrink' into her own devices...confusion and lack of trust at the helm of her vessel...politics and social behavior her crutch...

Thanks Cajazz76: So noted. I will be on alert.

Perhaps the lady (and other passengers) genuinely thought she smelled alcohol, or perhaps it's was imagined. Perhaps her intent was well meant. However, freedom of speech and the freedom to speak up come with responsibilities: one can not use the privilege loosely. Her statements could be considered slander and considered libelous if inaccurate – certainly, such accusations could be ruinous to the career of the accused. Fortunately good judgement prevailed and the pilot was cleared of the passenger's misguided charge. The need to remove the passenger from the plane was unfortunate, but probably to the "greater good" of passengers and crew. Should the event serve to deter other misguided individuals from making similar charges? ABSOLUTELY! Freedom of speech is not freedom from responsibility for our actions and the damage that those actions may cause to the wrongly accused.

Cajazz76:24:8

Insults only reflect back on your credibility! All you have to do is call the University of California, Irvine Medical center and find out for yourself!!!! I understand your need to protect; however, it would be wiser that the population is aware of the facts.

Cajazz76:24:8

A side note: It was still advised that people who drug test not consume poppy seed muffins. The research conducted was in 2005 utilizing a small sample.

I don’t know about anyone else, I can only speak for myself; however, I would much prefer to have the flight delayed and make sure those who are flying the aircraft are not under the influence. Many lives are at stake and it only takes one ooooops!!!

@ Cajazz76:24:8

You are a sly one. I know your style only to well!!! Have fun!!! Some people will always remain in the dark. I guess its just a part of life!

@ Waves

There has been a lot of controversy over this subject and I know you are in this field; because you mentioned it a while back. Due to the conflicting stories, we did do the research and as mentioned to cajazz, it was a small sample in 2005. Possibly decisions have been made since then. The judge we worked with accepted it being a fallacy; however, deemed it appropriate to state no consumption of poppy seed muffins for those that drug test.

@ nina

The Washington State judicial system read the report from UCI. I agree with you. It seemed to be a facility; however, our judge also ordered all drug testing addicts not to consume poppy seed muffins. Did UCI ever research whether the difference was caused due to cooking the seeds?

@ Wave,

it seems that you drug test; therefore, it might be wise for you not to consume poppy seed muffins.

@nina1fox

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know poppy seeds contain inherent amounts of opoids. They are the seeds of the sap..sap! Although opoids metabolize in a fairly short time as opposed to THC, they are still tested for, and can be recognized in amounts as small as ONE nanogram. Non-judicial institutions have elevated the levels to around 2000 nanograms per milliliter, but if tested for an airline or security position...any amount would fail you and if a parolee you are warned and have to sign a statement of non-consumption...Fail their testing and you failed at the opportunity to remain un-incarcerated. Again it comes down to TRUTH, something you seem to have great difficulty in accepting. Insults...the only way one receives them is to have first given them...and it is an insult to ones common sense to admit being part of a back-of-the-pickup experiment without a single bit of acceptable or refutable supposition or control data to exert your self-proclaimed omnipresence in all fields outside the behaviorist institution. Even your answer must insult you because it is a contradiction of your initial chiding of @Waves...Maybe hiding behind all those names you use has created an alteration to your human condition..perhaps?

Cajazz76:24:8

Is that all you have to offer are insults? The research was conducted. There would be no reason to lie ,,,, I understand your need to protect her. Sometimes when we get the 'prize', it is not all what we had thought! Good Luck in your endeavors! I am more than confident you will succeed! After all, you are very determined!

@ Wave

I understand Poppy seed muffins go well with Chi Tea! You might try it some day.

@Cesar

Cooking has little, if any, effect on opioid potency. It is the extraction and measurement down to 1 billionth part per milliliter of nearly all chemical concentrations tested for, that is the concern of those being tested. So bottom line @nina1fox has contradicted her contradictions on contraband considered chemicals. Opioids are contained in poppy seeds and eating them can make one fail a drug test..FACT..The most potent concentration is obtained by slitting the bulb of the poppy flower and collecting it much like maple syrup was made...caj Just because UCI states test results are unsupportive doesn't mean scat beyond the classroom and their results were certainly never published because the so called investigation participant herself had to have been high on poppy seeds and lost reasonable perception to warrant the "I was part of a research team"..how stoic and self predicating !!! Oh!!! @nina1fox is that what you claim to be an insult...????????

@nina1fox

There's that behaviorist and the hidden id that is not so apparent in each of your names you use within these blogs. And this 'her' you speak of, is that one of your 'hers' or an assumed 'her' to tag others with in your assumption that others are all of you's? You were also part of the first moon landing also, weren't you? You can attest to it, you have seen the dust, which to me you are, and less.

@Cesar

Figuring this out yet...? The Ides?

Cajazz76:24:8

You are the one who taught me to use different identities. You are correct… when you told me, you certainly know how to compliment women. I see it can swing both directions.

@Cesar

Well there is the admission by nina1fox that the Ides of Idiocy lurk within these blogs. @nina1fox has befuddled herself with who is real and who is twisted in a multi-personality dimension of contorted mis-identifications. Now she is entrapped in her own web of deceit and has erroneously misidentified contributor's of these blogs as someone familiar to her and committed the silliest offense of all...lying to herself and believing it. That sort of deteriorates ones entire life, you think? Perhaps, if she revealed her true identity, her commonly known moniker, the lessons she missed and those she has yet to learn are as plain as the nose on her posterior. You cannot convince a behaviorist, whose purpose is to give completely different interpretations on the things that we affirmatively know best, that the truth is obvious and attested to when they themselves convulse in the presence of the truth.

@nina1fox...of course I am correct, and you continue to lie...and your above comment is just pitiful in your attempts to discredit me...and you are locked into a "Catch 22" verified by your many online personalities. All within these blogs will have the opportunity to see you as who you really are and the blog world will be watching...lol How childish to use the exculpation that you were taught to use different identities. A behaviorist is taught to have their own heads examined first, what made you the exception?

@nina1fox

Your words.".you certainly know how to compliment women. I see it can swing both directions". If you are watching it swing in both directions, (sic) there has been compliment's, as you attest, given by me that are not being properly accepted. Are you still watching it swing in both directions? Now even I am confused, but significantly amused...and, without sounding too aggressive, I have not wasted this day because I am LMAO...

I find this all very humorous...LMAO

"Humor brings insight and tolerance. Irony brings a deeper and less friendly understanding"...Agnes Repplier..That pretentious humor expressed is mere...caj

Cajazz

My light at the end of a tunnel.... may be your oncoming train! (lol)

Point taken and enjoyed!

Something I found on an obscure page (unknown author)

Pretentious Philosophers:
In any given philosophical discussion there will be no shortage of supererogatory words and phrases that only serve to clutter and disguise the true meaning of literal or verbalized cerebrations. In addition, those words and phrases will be strung together into the longest run-on sentences to grace the internet ,paper, or reverberate through the air causing all those reading or listening to sit and ponder for minutes over a sentence that should only take a few seconds to grasp the concept being set forth.

It certainly reminds me of someone, if you get my drift! ROFL LMAO!!!

Retaliation, pure and simple.

No retaliation intended... just humor

I have a good one !!! Delta captain removed my husband from the plane. Another passenger that was accompanying him on the flight, had an altercation with the staff. My husband was already sitting in his seat and was questioned by the Flight attendant if he also had a problem? Due to his response included the word... " other word for cat", this apparently offended the Flight attendant which within 5 minutes returned with the captain. Who then informed my husband he would also have to leave the flight, and would no longer be allowed to fly Delta again. In my opinion, I love Delta, but i think that this is getting out of control. Things are getting a little to sensitive.

I was on a flight once that when we started taxiing to take off noticed a strange noise and bumping under my feet that was not the normal breaks in the concrete. Another passenger across the aisle from me also noticed it and commented to the attendants and I agreed with him. This brought out the co-pilot after we kept insisting something was not right and none of these people seemed to be able to hear/feel it. They then brought out a mechanic to check the wheels...nothing wrong. The other passenger (we were the only two passengers in this row) was a pilot and he kept insisting something wasn't right so the flight crew asked him if he wanted to go back to the gate to disembark and he said yes. When we got back to the gate, the mechanics checked again before letting him (and I would've gone too) off and discovered that there really was something wrong with the wheel, the bearings froze up. In reading this story it made me realize that I could've been kicked off this flight because I made a point of saying there was a problem.

A number of years ago, I was on a Delta flight and noticed just before takeoff that the slats weren't deployed. I mentioned this to a flight attendant and shortly after a successful takeoff, the second officer came back to explain to me that based on weight, atmospheric conditions, etc. etc. that deployment of the slats wasn't necessary. I fly quite a lot and on almost every flight on planes so equipped, the leading edge slats are always deployed. Now, the pilot is the expert, but I sensed that he was annoyed that a passenger would pose a question about the operation of the flight. I was mostly curious as I used to fly as engineer on prop planes years ago.

Whatever she was right or not is not the issue but at soon as she made the complain and the concern, the flight attendant should had reported it to Homeland Security the pilot should had been removed from the flight and tested for alcohol comsumtion.It is a very important issue that should had been investigated it involves passangers life,crew members life and people on the ground life.Some flight attendants cover up pilots some for fear of losing their job and some because relationship develops between them..FAA should fire the attendant for no reporting the incident,if the flight attendant did reported it then whomever she reported it to should be fire for not taking the safety precautions of remove the pilot from the flight. The pilot couldnot be terminated because it wasnot proved that he comsumed alcohol.

Just the kind of arrogance one would expect from US airline employees – the passenger is always wrong !

This news article is very bad publicity for Delta the airline is going to lose a lot of customers.I myself will think it a million times before buying a ticket with Delta because of what was reported in this news article.