April 27, 2010

Goldman's Damaging Emails

Posted: 04:00 AM ET


NEW YORK ( - Internal Goldman Sachs e-mails released on Capitol Hill Saturday show how the firm used bets on mortgage securities in a bid to profit as the housing market began to plummet several years ago.

A lawmaker set to grill company executives on Tuesday says the documents show that Goldman executives knew their bets would profit the firm.

But the firm said that all of the documents turned over to the panel reveal a different picture - that the firm lost $1.2 billion in residential mortgage-backed securities in 2007 and 2008.

"Of course we didn't dodge the mortgage mess," Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein told company executives in an e-mail dated Nov. 18, 2007 that was released by both the committee and Goldman. "We lost money, then made more than we lost because of shorts," or trading bets aimed at profiting when a bond drops in value.

But Blankfein added: "Also, it's not over, so who knows how it will turn out ultimately."

Four Goldman exhibits were released by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who chairs the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

The e-mails, Levin said, "show that, in fact, Goldman made a lot of money by betting against the mortgage market" and contradict the firm's claim that it was merely buying and selling securities for clients.

The dispute previews an expected showdown on Tuesday when Blankfein and other Goldman executives appear before Levin's committee.


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gerald   April 27th, 2010 8:54 am ET

I was the first to say he makes Capone seem like a chior boy I was the first to say tiger woods would post a 68 on the first round of the masters and I will be the first to say that now the emails have raises the curtian on his devil rump he will start to rat on his friend for a lesser jail sentence he should be found guilty of finance treason....what a bum.

gerald   April 27th, 2010 9:04 am ET

If ever there was a reason to expel a group of citizens this it how can Arizona tell a group of people whoose ancestors roamed th desert for 2000 years to leave a country that was thetes first then let a group of Caucaisions who clearly lie steal and cause turmoil in a country they call their own and truly it is not,straight to jhell silly and goldiggers INC.

Ted   April 27th, 2010 10:41 am ET

If we want to fight organized crime that we MUST pay more attention to Wall Street, where more crime is commited than the whole Mafia every did.
Large is not always better, therefore all those huge banks created from many already large banks must be cut down in size so they are not too big to fail! The US taxpayers should never again be forced to save such an institution. If they make large mistakes because of their greed, they should go bankrupt and the owners should pay the consequences.

The biggest problem is that our politicians are financed by Wall Street and they will not risk losing large donations just to clean up the mess.
We can be assured, that after a lot of noise about the investigation nothing earth shaking will be done.
Wall Street can cheat and lie and our politicians will get their annual deposits into their accounts.

Cajazz76:24:8   April 27th, 2010 11:58 am ET

While Cheney and Bush were entertaining themselves behind their desks, the banks and investment firms ran rampant. Bernie Made-off with over $30 billion and Goldman Sachs and others were screwing the pooch..(investors) with banking and securities mismanagement.

The SEC sat behind their desks choking their chickens and, in at least one case, rubbing the little man in the boat while they watched thousands of hours porn videos.

Now, with as much legislation before congress not acted on, the midget mentalities of partisan politics continues to stall on 'getting a grip' to secure a 'handle' on the rampant fraud and misconduct in the financial industry. Sell that to someone sitting on the courthouse steps selling pencils to feed himself after losing his life's savings.

Now we have a president pushing for legislation to correct the ills created before he took office, and everyone with broken right-wing and used tea bag attitudes just want to knock the black off him and put the country deeper into the red.

Put a Band-Aid on partisan politics or we'll find our heirs destined to be "living in a nation of vagabonds riding the rails of poverty toward a horizon of destitution relying on prostitution for restitution" because off the "ills" of their predecessors. cajazz76:24:8...

Cajazz76:24:8   April 27th, 2010 12:10 pm ET

I need help from any fellow bloggers to determine what becomes of mixing mixing sex, politics, religion, and money?

gerald Jolly   April 27th, 2010 12:12 pm ET

Here is my prediction.

Goldman Sachs executives will face a Senate hearing, after which time they will do what they normally do when caught with their hand in the cookie jar,

Millions of dollars will be channeled to those same Senators that are grilling them, disguised as campaign contributions.

The phony bunch of "SO-CALLED" lawmakers will chastize the executives of G.S. and tell them that they have been "BAD BOYS"
The BAD BOYS will get the traditional SLAP ON THE WRIST, and once again "JOE THE ORDINARY AMERICAN, will be asked to bend over and enjoy the process.

The Jewish league will cry bigotry and racism and will get an apology from the house and senate.

And Joe the ordinary American, will be asked to bite the bullet once again.

The STENCH of Bernie Madoff will permiated the Senate, and they will retire to their holes in the ground and enjoy drinking that 12 year old whiskey, donated to them by the very crooks they have just allowed to go away unscaved.

AHHHHHH! Is'nt American justice great???????????????

Cathy   April 27th, 2010 12:25 pm ET

It's easy to BIOB but no one seems to be reminded that had the liberal Congress not insisted that everyone and his brother have a mortgage regardless if they were qualified for one or not, and basically a respectable credit score or lack thereof was irrelevant as was employment status. Any time the door to greed is opened, someone will take advantage; unfortunately Congress opened that door.

The answer to your question in today's world: a successful man

Dodie   April 27th, 2010 12:45 pm ET

Copied right off the web site for all to see!

Hedge Fund Manager’s Yearly Earnings!!!!!

1.David Tepper, Appaloosa Management
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $4 billion

2. George Soros, Soros Fund Management
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $3.3 billion

3. James Simons, Renaissance Technologies
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $2.5 billion

4: John Paulson, Paulson & Company
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $2.3 billion

5: Steve Cohen, SAC Capital Advisors
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $1.4 billion

6. (tie): Carl Icahn, Icahn Capital
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $1.3 billion

Wake up Americans… look at white collar crime!

Dodie   April 27th, 2010 12:47 pm ET

@ Cathy

You call a successful man earling ((4 billion dollars a year))??? I call that corrupt!!!!!

Robert Joseph Williams   April 27th, 2010 12:47 pm ET

Here's a little comment you might want to quote on your program tonight Larry. i dare you! I'm one of those G–d–m socialist Canucks;

The Capitalist Circus Returns to Washington, complete with a new 'Goldman Sachs America' act:

Once again we are being subjected to the subterfuge and lies of the Wall Street Gucci set. The testimony of these rogues will only serve to confuse and leave the American public in the dark about what really happens in the secret closets of firms like 'Goldman Sachs America' (perhaps a new name for these infamous thieves? a new corporate brand?). Does anyone honestly believe things will change? The more things change, the more they stay the same. there will only be a lull in the party on wall street. in fact, the cigars and cognac is likely to get more expensive in the coming days. i think Blankfein will likely host a victory dinner after these hearings with appropriate $1000+ whores as rewards for his acolytes' success in touting the corporate 'truth'. Kudos boys! Let the gravy train continue. They'll have much to laugh and reminisce about after the 'truth' commission ends. Perhaps some of the Congressional task force will join in, the more the merrier I say! (Washington burns as the SEC executives surf for porn! Can we blame them?)

Cathy   April 27th, 2010 12:55 pm ET

I answered his question which did not include salary; not sure what you are asking. There are a lot of people making millions and billions who are not corrupt. Don't assume all of these hedge funds were invested in something corrupt. Perhaps speak to President Clinton about your thoughts since his daughter worked for a hedge fund. I don't recall her being a Republican.

IKHAN   April 27th, 2010 12:58 pm ET

These glorified crooks are protected, folks. Nothing is going to happen to them.They'll continue to walk away with millions in bonuses while small investors go kaput.
The Republican goons have already blocked progress on the financial regulations & let me tell you that those in the senate who blatantly strut around with "dual loyalty" ( for those who are not aware of this syndrome- its simply those politicians who have the interest of a foreign govt at heart instead of America's) would make sure that these crooks get off the hook.
Yes people, we have many dual loyalty holders in Washington.
I asked knowledgeable fellow bloggers before & would ask them again to let us have some insight as to the backgrounds of the ceos & chairpersons of these firms.I'm pretty sure we would find something common there which would explain why they have remained above the law for so long.

gerald Jolly   April 27th, 2010 1:38 pm ET

In every free democratic country in the world, including the U.S. it is forbiden for a family member, associate, close friend, in-law, to be allowed to sit in judgement or in favor of the designated culprit.

In the case of Goldman Sachs, whose executives compose of more than 90% of jewish extraction.

While the Senate investigators headed by Senator Carl "LEVIN" and five other Senators of Jewish extraction will be asking questions and deciding if Goldman Sachs are guilty of fraud and wrong doing.

The jewish faith tells it followers that all jews are brothers in kind



Cajazz76:24:8   April 27th, 2010 1:48 pm ET

IKHAN you're an icon the way you conceptualize the ill-gotten gains in a financial society going broke in their morality..Good to read your always..Take care. caj..

Dodie   April 27th, 2010 2:00 pm ET

@ Cathy

If you read more carefully, you will denote that I stated “mostly Republicans” meaning Democrats are also involved.

IKHAN   April 27th, 2010 6:02 pm ET

thanks.There some very knowledgeable folks like yourself,A.Smith, Dodie,gerald Jolly to name some,who keep on enriching our intellect. My best wishes to you all.
@gerald Jolly
you got it. This is what is common among these fat cats & keeps them above the law & those holders of "dual loyalty" are the goons protecting them who as you said are also the judge & the jury.
I just hope & pray that we Americans wake up & take notice.

Cathy   April 27th, 2010 7:03 pm ET

Perhaps I don't read as carefully as you would like, but truthfully the political parties had nothing to do with your point. And perhaps you don't read between the lines as well as I do, so what I should have said was,
"by the standards of today's society, a successful man." My dry sense of humor, that's all it was.

CHM   April 27th, 2010 9:12 pm ET

Don't you know how to google some facts and then cut and paste them on LKL? That's all you have to do to be knowledgeable.

Patrick Hilton   April 27th, 2010 9:31 pm ET

I wonder how many of our senators got big paychecks after the show today,believe me that was all it was. Pat

Nancy Smith   April 27th, 2010 10:00 pm ET

Canadien's average 22.748% tax on $60,000

steve hann   April 27th, 2010 10:12 pm ET


As Canadians diligently complete their tax returns, many will come to the shocking realization of just how much income tax they paid last year. Somehow, the amount of income tax displayed on our pay stubs does not seem nearly as bad as when it is neatly summed up on our income tax returns.

Of course, there are many of us who happily pay our income tax, thinking of the numerous government programs that our tax dollars finance, like health care, education, the military and so on. But the question all Canadian taxpayers must answer for themselves is whether or not we are getting our money's worth for the taxes we pay. To answer this question, however, Canadians must have an accurate picture of their total tax bill. For this, Canadians must look well beyond their income tax returns.

The reality is that income taxes form only a portion of the total tax bill imposed on us by all levels of government. In 2009, the average Canadian family (families and unattached individuals) earned approximately $69,175 in income and paid $9,341 in income taxes, representing 13.5 per cent of their income. While personal income taxes are the single largest tax Canadians pay, they represent only about one-third of our total tax bill.

Two other significant taxes that we deal with on our tax returns are the Canada Pension Plan (CPP) and Employment Insurance (EI). In addition, residents of British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec also pay health care taxes through either direct premiums or payroll taxes. All told, the average Canadian family paid some $6,074 in CPP, EI and health taxes in 2009. Payroll taxes are second only to income taxes as the single largest government levy.

There are two other relatively visible taxes that we pay, thankfully not at the same time as our income tax bill: property taxes and sales taxes. The average Canadian family paid about $2,834 in property taxes in 2009. One of the common misconceptions is that only homeowners pay property taxes. The truth of the matter is that property taxes for renters are included in their monthly rent, so in one way or another we all pay property taxes. For homeowners, at least the cost of property taxes is transparent since we each receive an annual bill.

Sales taxes are visible whenever we make a purchase upon which the tax is applied. Calculating the amount of sales taxes paid, however, is difficult in that it requires people to track all of their purchases of taxable goods and services. Our estimates indicate that the average Canadian family pays about $4,260 a year in sales taxes.

In addition to personal income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes and sales taxes, which are all visible to a certain degree, there are a host of taxes that we pay but do not see. For instance, average Canadian families paid approximately $2,484 in profit taxes in 2009. Taxes on liquor, tobacco and amusement amounted to $1,757 for the average Canadian family, while automobile and gas taxes totalled about $749. Finally, average Canadian families were assessed about $272 in import duties in 2009, another cost which is not easily discernible.

Summed up, the average Canadian family faced a tax bill of $28,878 in 2009 against income of $69,175. The total taxes imposed on the average Canadian family consumed 41.7 per cent of income.

But that is not where it ends. Most federal and provincial governments are running budget deficits, which means that the current taxes are not sufficient to cover current government spending. By running substantial budget deficits, Canadian governments of today are putting off the tax bills that will inevitably come due. If we include deferred taxation (deficits), the total tax bill of the average Canadian family is actually $31,714. This means that Canadian families are facing a future tax bill on an additional $2,836.

It is critical that Canadians understand that the taxes delineated on our income tax returns represent less than half of our total tax bill. Understanding our total tax bill will enable each of us to better assess whether or not we, as taxpayers, are receiving value for our money. Our hope is that such understanding will lead to more pressure for real and meaningful tax relief for Canadians in the future. At the very least, we should be able to hold our politicians much more accountable for the resources they extract from us.

Niels Veldhuis and Milagros Palacios are economists with the Fraser Institute.

David G Roux   April 27th, 2010 11:20 pm ET

Lets get to the point, here.
Little sympathy must be shown to the banks and financial institutions trading in un-authorized products worldwide. The reason is quite simple: what happened to their Basel II implementation and compliance, as well as the appropriate local authority’s subsequent supervision?
The rate at which the Government has been bailing-out Institutions is not alarming; it is a disaster in the making. Where was the SEC?
In this regard, I would like to refer to the report by the Bank for International Settlements, Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, entitled International Convergence of Capital Measurement and Capital Standards – Revised Framework June 2006, and in particular, Part 2, Chapter VI – Market Risk, Point 2, Prudent Valuation Guidance.
This section provides banks with a framework and guidance on prudent valuation of positions in the trading book, adequate systems and controls, as well as the need for policies and procedures to be in place.
The question is: how many fundamental requirements as described in the above-mentioned document were in place?
In conclusion, it must be pointed out that the implementation of Basel II was not an option, it was mandatory.
"Spy Traders"
Lets make the movie!!

Anne Starritt   April 28th, 2010 1:02 am ET

To the idiots who have proclaimed Arizona to be a Republic and would have the world believe all Americans are against anyone who MIGHT be an innigrant.: How much thought has been given to offering help to honest people who want to be here? There is an abundance of citizens who SHOULD BE penalized . Won't a terrorist simply stay away from Arizona?

J. Nunes   April 28th, 2010 3:24 am ET

Dear Mr. King:

I was disappointed that during your interview with Michael Moore no balanced views were presented on the subject of illegal immigration. Michael Moore would require the “Boys” at Goldman Sacks to follow the law, but the citizens of Mexico and other countries who jump the fence into the US (a crime) and steal the identity of a US citizen (a crime) are to be treated as if they had been legally admitted to the US. Apparently, to Mr. Moore the citizens of Mexico and other countries, who jump the fence and exploit a stolen identity are more deserving of admission to the US that the citizens of other poor countries of the world who follow the procedure of applying for admission and waiting to be issued a visa for permanent residence. His ignorance of the volume of horrendous crimes committed by illegal immigrants in Arizona is appalling. Once he checks the facts, he will understand why 75% of the Arizona voters approve of the signing of the bill 1070.

J. Nunes,

samuel wallace   April 28th, 2010 3:34 am ET

Hi larry,my name is samuel wallace i live in Des moines IOWA ,i will like to make history by talking to you on your show,originally i from west Africa Liberia,schooling at vatterott college in des moines.

Glenn   April 28th, 2010 4:01 am ET

If you are going to do wrong at lease destroy the email

Ted   April 28th, 2010 8:53 am ET

A respected european news magazine had the following article last week: The politicians of Israel are the most corrupt!
Several Minister presidents and ministers of that state are either under investigation for corruption and fraud or are already sentensed.
Ministers of the ultra-conservative religious parties are the most corrupt, so it must come with the religion.

If you notice, Mr. Blankfein and all those execs who had to face the music at the senate hearing are jewish.
Medoff is jewish,
Milken is jewish,
Boer is jewish,
Paulson is jewish
and 90% of all persons commiting large financial fraud are jewish.

The question is: are jews more corrupt than any other nationality or religion?!
If yes, then we are in trouble, because Wall Street is controlled good 80% by jews.

This has nothing to do with anti-semitisims, we should ask the same question if the crooks were all italians or chinese or anything else.
Why does 2.5% of the population of the USA cause most major financial frauds?
Why do jews run the financial business of our nation if they are so corrupt?

Cindy   April 28th, 2010 8:56 am ET

Thank you for your post; I did have the understanding that on average Canadians paid about 42%. Do you have a lot of deductions available such that you have many citizens who pay no federal income taxes? Approximately half of US citizens in US pay no federal income taxes.

gerald Jolly   April 28th, 2010 9:01 am ET

Althought, I dont personally condone such action, perhaps paying someone to assassinate a couple of these greedy crooked bastards, would send a clear message that they must stop the criminal activities or pay the consequences.

Sometimes the threat of prison or such penalties will stop the greedy from doing their dirty deeds, but in most cases these skunks know their way around the justice system better than the legal system itself.

I do not advocate the chinese system of justice where you can be executed for crimes of fraud just a well as murder, but in the case of the sleazy merchants of venom, I think it would be appropriate as well as sending a clear message that one cannot prosper from a greed driven activity.

This is one case where I would readily agree to being the "HITMAN"

Cindy   April 28th, 2010 9:47 am ET

Mr. Moore has a habit of giving a broad answer to complex questions, thus avoiding details often times because he doesn't understand the details, as he did not understand derivatives. To compare income taxes in the US and Canada, he would really have to lay out two identical scenarios, one from each country, as for wages, marital status, children, deductions, etc. and then calculate the federal income taxes on both. Even then the outcome would only provide a small glimpse into the true story, as we would not have province, state, value-added tax, healthcare tax, etc. Unfortunately a lot of people will probably take his simple answer as gospel. Perhaps he will surprise me and give full disclosure.

gerald Jolly   April 28th, 2010 10:34 am ET

@ Cindy, I totally agree.

But to be more to the point.

The average Canadian's take home pay, is slightly larger than his U.S. counterpart, but that is only because the U.S. citizen is gravely effected by the huge part of his income that goes toward paying for health care for himself and his family.

Prices of goods in the U.S. on the average is far better than in Canada, and has been recorded as approx: 75% of what a Canadian pays for the same goods.

Best comparison I can think of is.
A 42 in. RCA flat screen T.V. in Canada $789.00
A 42 in. Rca flat screen T.V. in the U.S. $589.00

Cindy   April 28th, 2010 10:51 am ET

@Gerald Jolly,
Thanks, Gerald, for the additional information. I did not realize that Canadians pay a higher cost for goods. That's very interesting. A lot of people have posted differing numbers for what they believe Canadians pays. I don't think any are inflated or deflated; it's just that some are providing percentages based on apples and some on oranges, as we are saying; thus the need for clarification on the answer Mr. Moore provides. I read you live in Canada; it's a beautiful country for sure. I love to visit.

Cindy   April 28th, 2010 11:01 am ET

Perhaps you have answered your own question. If those running financial institutions are 80% Jewish, then would it not stand to reason that the odds of anyone committing fraud in those institutions would heavily favor the Jewish?

Why are they running these institutions? Most people involved in finances are very strong in math. I'm sure you know where most students/adults rank in that area; it's a strong area for a lot of Jewish people which could lead us into another whole discussion on education.
I think you are definitely selling them short on this one, no pun intended.

IKHAN   April 28th, 2010 1:01 pm ET


thanks for the tip. We the ignoramuses are grateful. Nevertheless I greatly enjoy reading posts from those that I named and also from Rose & LIZ CARTER.

@gerald jolly,@Cindy,@Ted.
if you just closely watch the body language of these guardians of their treasure troves, you would notice the arrogance written all over their smug mugs safely cocooned in their conceit from being protected & declared untouchables by their own kind – the jury.
Ariel Sharon had once ,perhaps in 2005, had declared proudly that "Israel controls America & Americans know it". We Americans better swallow that & go about our businesses.

We pay out $ 3 billion to Israel every year & 1.3 billion from American tax payers pockets to Egypt. One a rogue state where apartheid is practiced blatantly & the other a brutal dictatorship.
Do the fellow bloggers know that there are 30 laws in Israel discriminating against non-Jews who though natural born citizens & their govt. does everything in their power to keep the lids on those brave Jewish peace activists who try to raise their voices against their policies both in Israel & here. So much for the spiel fed to us they being a democracy.
So foks rest assured nothing is going to happen to these fat cats of Wall st.

IKHAN   April 28th, 2010 1:02 pm ET

pardon the typos guys.

Dodie   April 28th, 2010 1:58 pm ET

@ gerald Jolly

Another fact that is not considered is....
If one is lucky enough to even have medical insurance in the US, how much are the premiums? Medical premiums in the US are for many, are right up there with the Mortgage. For many, it is often their second highest payment.

Canadians never have to fear losing their homes where as Americans are always in jeopardy. Last year, my hospital bill came to $243,000 for only 2 weeks. Can you imagine.......

Even with insurance if your co-pay is 20% that comes to a whopping $50,000. How many Americans can even pay the co-pay? How many people that blog on here could come up with $50,000?????????

Valery Fabrikant   April 28th, 2010 2:52 pm ET

If you watched senators pretending to grill Goldman Sachs executives, pay attention to the purpose of the whole exercise. They know that everybody is angry and they pretend be expressing this anger to those executives. It reminds me of old Russian fable written by Krylov. In this fable, cook is reproaching to a cat stealing of chicken and eating it. Cook uses all the angry expression and shames cat as hard as he can while cat continues eating the chicken. The moral of the fable was: instead of lecturing to the cat, use your power. Take the chicken away from him and throw him out. While senators are shaming those executives, the executives continue enjoying hundreds of millions in bonuses. Madoff is in jail for the rest of his life for stealing around $50 billion and harming several thousand people. These people have stolen at least 15 times that amount. They caused loss of job and houses of several million people and not only are they are not in jail, they continue receiving their huge money. In the Old Soviet Union, there was a crime of harming economy for the country and the crime was punishable by death. I am sure there is similar disposition in the Criminal Code of China. This is one of the things we might need to learn from Communist countries.

IKHAN   April 28th, 2010 4:57 pm ET

@Valery Fabrikant.

well said. Alas! Here the judge & the jury is also of the 'feline' kind & shares the 'meat' with the 'cat'.

Those sitting in judgment are sympathizers & as you said this is all a sham. They will get away.

Ted   April 29th, 2010 8:47 am ET

@ Cindy

I said 80% of Wall Street is run by jews, not the whole country, but the greatest number of financial frauds are commited in New York, where the jews run the show!!!
Boston is the second largest financial center of the USA, yet you do not hear of any such doings.
You forgot to mention why do most israeli government members end up in front of a court and sometimes in jail for corruption and fraud.
Corruption in that country is rampant and the answer on the question why is it so, was; it is necessary to run our country.
Do we appoint the goat to guard our gardens?

As far as education goes, I am sure christians or moslems also have people just as smart, but perhaps they are not as crooked. 2,000 years ago Jesus chased the money changers out the temple, if you believe the Bible.

Ted   April 29th, 2010 8:58 am ET

@ Gerald Jolly

You are 100% correct!!

I watched most of the hearing and I did not see any real hard questionning, just mild repeating the same useless questions.
The real issue of fraud commited by Goldman when they repackaged BBB securities, (junk bonds), and sold them as AAA investments, (the highest grade), was not mentioned once. The SEC must file a criminal charge based on that, not on who said what and when.
Goldman was the greatest single donor to President Obama and I am sure all other important politicians got their share and a dog never bites the hand that feeds him!!

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