January 22, 2010

Arabs and Haiti...aid trickles in

Posted: 05:29 PM ET

By Octavia Nasr, CNN Senior Editor, Middle East Affairs

Determining how much Arab countries have contributed or pledged in aid to Haiti is a challenging feat. This is not unusual for someone who works the Middle East beat.

The great majority of Arab governments and leaders are slow to react to events – natural disasters included. Most Arabs react quietly, some might say inefficiently, and others would argue it’s out of modesty that they don’t “brag” about their giving.

More than nine days after the devastating quake, it is fair to conclude that with the exception of a few Arab nations, there is not much to be proud of in terms of official Arab outreach to help the victims of the catastrophic earthquake.

Here is what we know about some Arab donations or pledges to Haiti: Morocco, Kuwait and Bahrain pledged $1 million US Dollars each in aid to be delivered in various ways through each country’s Red Crescent organization. Jordan, which lost 3 peacekeepers in the quake, has sent two planes of aid and a medical team to set up a medical field facility in Port-au-Prince.

Qatar and Bahrain sent in planes each loaded with tons of food and medical aid. Lebanon flew in an official delegation that distributed aid, checked on the Lebanese community in Port-au-Prince and evacuated three Lebanese, ten Syrian nationals and five Palestinians. In addition to carrying tents, food aid and water, a Telecom engineer flew back to Haiti to join his colleagues who, according to Waleed Haidar, Foreign Ministry Consul who headed the mission, “insisted on staying in Haiti to help restore mobile services which are essential to the search, rescue and rebuilding efforts.”

At the same time, the Lebanese Red Cross and the Red Crescent in the Gulf region, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates in particular, have launched campaigns to collect much-needed cash for Haiti. The United Arab Emirates has established a relief air bridge to Haiti and has already delivered tons of food and medical aid.

The charity ‘Dubai Al-Attaa’ is coordinating with NGO’s such as CARE and UNICEF to provide educational assistance to 200,000 Haitian children.


Filed under: Haiti Earthquake

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IKHAN   January 22nd, 2010 5:43 pm ET

Hi Larry,
I saw a lot of people in CNN blogs asking this question-what are Muslim countries doing for Haiti? Its good to see that you are covering that aspect. Let us know more please.
Muslims in America also have raised almost a million dollars in aid.

We would also like to know what Vatican has done so far,90% of Haiti population is Roman Catholic. And also what are the rich South American states doing & countries like Egypt & Israel which get billions in aid & help from us every year??

Gerald Jolly   January 22nd, 2010 6:28 pm ET

You asked what the Vatican and the catholic church is doing for the people in Haiti

The church are going to send more PEDOPHILE priest there to look after the orphans of the dead parents.

As for the Vatican, they wanted to help, but they're down to there last 18 trillion dollars of wealth, and cant afford to spend any more after paying off thousands who have been molested by their priests.

Posted by a former catholic whose eyes have been miraculously opened.

A. Smith, Oregon   January 22nd, 2010 6:47 pm ET

There is virtually no way for Muslims to take over Haiti and install Sharia Law as occurred shortly after the Tsunami relief effort in Malaysia. The Koran appears to teach not to befriend anyone that is not a Muslim including helping them. This might be a reason for so little aid coming from some of the richest nations in the world.

It is curious and perhaps ironic that a Sharia Judge speaking to the women in Indonesia appeared to place the entire cause of the Tsunami in 2004 upon women's sinful ways! This blame seems to parallel Christian Rev. Pat Robertson's outburst where he appeared to blame Haiti's earthquake on the Haitian followers of Voodou. I wonder if the Haitian Houngans and Mambo's are aware of Pat Robertson's public slander and smear of their religion?

Muslim Clerics post 2004 Tsunami declare that Women may have been the cause of the Asian tsunami!

According to one Sharia judge in the Indonesian province of Aceh, where Islamic law has recently been instituted, women may have been the cause of the Asian tsunami that so devastated the province, as relates The Times.

The Koran says that if women are good, then a country is good.


"The 2004 tsunami was because of the sins of the people of Aceh".

So said the Muslim Cleric judge while speaking at a gathering of women. It appears the religious police of Aceh have been singling out women for especial notice of late and have been using widespread fear of another tsunami as justification for their persecution of women.

Another tsunami is possible. The Holy Koran says that if humans don't listen to Allah they will be punished.

There are two ways of looking at this, one from the perspective that Islam has a marked deleterious effect on the mind of the believer, it makes him, well, stupid. Second, and perhaps more persuasive, is the way in which religion generally is used as a vehicle to gain power over others, and to gain rewards in this world.

In the case of Islam, for men generally, there is the power gained over women, the ability to enjoy more than one woman sexually in a socially legitimized way.

But for those in positions of authority Islam is indeed a marvelous gift, it enables them to gain an almost unassailable power over those viewed as sinful, Allah disapproves of this or that, whatever the enforcer of God’s will does can not be wrong.

Dodie ~ California   January 22nd, 2010 7:40 pm ET

Thank you Larry King and CNN for adding the Arabs, most of which are Muslim but not all, in the efforts to help the Haitians. I have seen Muslims in my community help others openly. I feel this population is sometimes targeted due to our involvement in the Middle East! I am happy that you are willing to give them a positive spotlight. Just like the Japanese Americans during the WW II who were placed in war camps, I have also been concerned about our reaction to this group of people resulting from our Middle East wars.

Extremists come in all forms, not just Arabic or Muslim!

Thank You Larry King and CNN

Jessie from Auckland, NZ   January 22nd, 2010 8:19 pm ET

Regardless of religion or religious the end we are all BROTHERS and SISTERS.

We all originated from one place originally.

JamesB   January 22nd, 2010 8:35 pm ET

Yes, Dodie, extremists come in all forms, don't they.

Mireille S. Dupuy   January 22nd, 2010 8:41 pm ET


I would like to ask Larry King to please, please THANK the American people on behalf of the Haitian people for their extraordinary
generosity. To also thank CNN and all the anchormen for the coverage they did.

Michael Hunter   January 22nd, 2010 8:44 pm ET

Larry, I think what has happened in Haiti is just terrible. All these money raising organization raising millions and millions of dollars for the people of Haiti is fantastic. Why is it that the U.S. has all these
jobless folk and all these(thousands) american family homes being foreclose on and we can't raise money for our own. Why don't these
organization work this hard for our own american families. Why doesn't George Clooney organize a foundation for our own jobless,
homeless and american families going into foreclosure. We have been in our own disaster for quite sometime now. I think it is time for we the people to come together and help each other. And yes I am a
proud american and am truely struggling to keep the dream alive.
Thank You
Michael Hunter

IKHAN   January 22nd, 2010 8:51 pm ET


the Clerics that you mentioned are an embarrassment to Muslims who know their religion as Pat Robertson & other priests who think they can shove their brand of religion down the throat of others, would be to true Christians or of other faiths.
Gerald Jolly rightly speaks out his mind as he would know.
No point in singling out one religion to revile, it just spreads more hate. Its heartening to see that countries & people around the world are coming together to help out regardless of cast or creed.
@Jessie from Auckland. You said it.

Irene Bryant   January 22nd, 2010 10:48 pm ET

Interesting that Israel was one of the first to arrive in Haiti and they have set up an awesome hospital. Of course, they won't get any acknowledgement. There is one short interview on Utube that shows what an awesome contibution they are making.

JamesB   January 22nd, 2010 11:40 pm ET

@Irene Bryant,
I did hear that about Israel and they should be acknowledged for their contributions and expediency, none of which is unusual for Israel.

A. Smith, Oregon   January 23rd, 2010 2:17 am ET

@ airah, thank you for taking the time to read my blog entrys!

I hope you have a good weekend also.

A. Smith, Oregon   January 23rd, 2010 2:26 am ET

Its ironic that the tent city in Sacramento, California was briefly named Bush City after then former president Bush's horrific economic impact on the lives of the newly homeless that moved there. It was swarmed by police and bulldozers shortly after the News Media reported the name BUSH CITY and the then administration ordered it flattened.

Perhaps the Haitian people could name one of the massive tent citys there outside of Port au Prince, 'Bush City' to highlight the fact that American taxpayers gave Bush-Cheney $208 Million taxpayer dollars to give to the Haitian People in 2007. It certainly doesn't appear that the Haitian people received a single dime of that mass amount of money.

luckybee   January 23rd, 2010 3:33 am ET

In Holland we have a parlements woman named Farah Karimi; who has given away the list of discidents agains the regime of the Ayatollah's, in Iran during her fisit there as a dutch parlaments member, to the Ayatollah's,Many of the fugitive;s from Iran called her the daughter of a Mullah's; I go a little further; I think she is the a daughter of Satan in person.She become the administrator of the collected money for Haíti . I want be very surpriced if the most of that money landed in the pockets of the Hizbullah.83 millioen Euro is not a small amount I think?

Ted   January 23rd, 2010 10:57 am ET

In my opinion the blogs of LKL should not be used to have vicious fights between bloggers!!! Insulting the other just because you do not agree with his or her comment proves that you have a very poor character and never herad of democracy.

Gerald Jolly

Here is another born again catholic whose eyes were opened many years ago. We can say the same negative remarks about all organized religion, catholic, jewish, protestant or moslem.
Their clerics talk water, but drink wine. They take your money for their own use to expend their power any way they can. They live of the fat of the donations, look at the Osteens and other preachers.

I would bet any amount that a good part of monies donated to these religious organizations will never end up in Haiti!!

Ted   January 23rd, 2010 11:40 am ET

Why are the arabs singled out?!
I do not see any questions on how much did the catholic church, the wealthy protestant preachers, the jews, the buddhists, the taoist donate.
Arab states like Sudan, Yemen, Mali etc. are just as poor, have civil wars and need help. How much did the Vatican donate to Sudan?

Dodie   January 23rd, 2010 1:01 pm ET

The last I looked, Freedom of speech is still listed with the First Amendment to the United States Constitution under the Bill of Rights.

I am in complete concurrence with Ted! There is absolutely NO reason for one bloger to criticize or attack another due to disagreement based on content! Personal attacks of others is censorious and totally unnecessary!!!

If you have a problem with what someone expresses to the point that one has to be nasty, maybe it would be better you do NOT blog!

Thank you Ted, for bringing this to our attention! As usual, beautifully expressed and benevolent.

IKHAN   January 23rd, 2010 2:39 pm ET

@Dodie, Ted

absolutely. Not only personal attacks but reviling any faith is distasteful especially coming from people who otherwise appear knowledgeable.
What the world needs now more than ever is to come together. There is so much that is wrong- poverty, illiteracy, diminishing resources like water , energy, wars, extremism, bias, the list could go on & on. Instead of wasting time on petty arguments we could be productive by spreading a message of hope & harmony. Haiti disaster in all its horror gives us that opportunity.

Our own house is in disorder this latest declaration by the Supreme Court adds to the recipe for disaster that is being assembled by narrow vision, biases, perverted ideology, partisanship of those who are supposed to guide our destiny from Washington, lobbies, special interest groups, corporations & such.
We need to focus on these issues before its too late.

PROF Dave W. Dawson   January 23rd, 2010 3:04 pm ET

In theory & probably in practice, the Arab countries have at least contributed with Prayers.
All Muslims under the 5 Pillars of Islam are legally required to contribute Charity & they're positively encouraged to donate a set portion of their earnings.
Then there's the use of the donated Charity itself.
But how much of this Muslim Charity money has to be spent re-building shattered Muslim lives & Mosques.
Say the West stopped trying to underhandedly wipe out someone's Faith, would the West see a much more efficient use of Global Charity Financing?
Does the West plan on seeing a much more efficient use of Global Charity Finance?
And if I have no plans to do Valentine's Day because the money is better given to Charity?
You can guarantee the Muslims get the same message.
When did the World ever give me time to be stupid?
When did the World ever expect lazy rhetoric from me?
Valentine's Day is such lazy rhetoric.
Forgive me for not holding America's hand for a few years to come.
My hands are busy putting the World to RIGHTS.
The Perfect Working Relationship comes first since the West isn't listening.
Discipline dictates that the World cleans up its' ugly act before you get any more hugs & kisses from those you've greatly offended in many many underhanded ways.
From here in UK Saint Helens, I'm forming a new World Government to see that World Order is restored.
CNN, be it known from major advanced Intelligence, we know who's going completely BANANAS.
If you understand these words, Pray some major healing from the RIGHT Authority.

A. Smith, Oregon   January 23rd, 2010 6:20 pm ET

'A' listers in Hollywood are donating and have donated 1 Million dollars apiece towards the Haitian relief effort. That is the same amount as entire Countries in the Arabic portion of the Middle East, and yet those same Countries rake in Trillions of dollars in Oil revenues.

Apparently some people do not want to hear any dialog on why such a huge discretion would exist. If Muslim ruled countries truly follow mercy and compassion towards those of other beliefs, why is there not a overwhelming Red Crescent presence in Haiti at this time of great need?

Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia   January 23rd, 2010 9:24 pm ET

Morning all

The blog is is in response to the numerous queries on why the rich Muslim nations did not contribute to Haiti.
So we got the answers now.
But why did you go Muslim bashing?
You have veered off course.
On the second day I did see jets from Jordan unloading supplies to Haitians.
Soemtimes we do'nt see what we see.

A. Smith, Oregon   January 23rd, 2010 10:16 pm ET

@ Idzan Ismail, thank you for a response. When a religion dictates to their followers and to the public that the Creator wants them to murder someone, I openly question that religion and state it is false and evil. Regardless if that religion be Christianity, Muslim, Judaic or Hinduism.

There has been some meager Arabic nation support to the Haitian relief effort, Jordan as you noted, the government of Qatar sent a strategic transport aircraft (C-17), loaded with 50 tones of urgent relief materials and 26 members from the Qatari armed forces. The team will set up a field hospital and provide assistance in Port-au-Prince and other affected areas in Haiti.

Notably missing is the extremely wealthy Saudi Arabian aid to Haiti.

Unless one prescribes to the extreme Muslim view of not helping any infidel regardless if that infidel is a family member, or a more moderate Muslim view of not helping any infidels that have historically attacked a Muslim ruled country. Haitians haven't attacked any Muslim ruled nations have they? That cancels out the moderate Muslim view, leaving the extreme Muslim view?

Dodie   January 23rd, 2010 10:49 pm ET

@ Gerald Jolly, A. Smith

If the GOP politicians are willing to filibuster everything in the hopes more who support the same will be elected; resulting in a movement towards corporate control or Fascism! Is that a possible scenario?

A. Smith, Oregon   January 23rd, 2010 11:40 pm ET

@ Dodie, yes that is possible now in the US Senate chambers. Democrats lacking a super majority or 2/3 of the total (100) Senatorial members are unable to vote a stoppage on Republican Senators attempting to defeat a up or down vote on a Senate Bill or legislation by talking it to death, aka a filibuster where opposing Senate members read the phone book, the bible, or their personal diary's etc. etc.

Is it practical however for the GOP to gain any steps in advancing more Republicans into Congressional or Senatorial seats in the November mid-term elections? I feel that voters seeing the GOP using the filibuster repeatedly will backfire on them, especially if such is covered by SPAN and various News Media outlets.

Corporate control as a result of the recent Supreme Court ruling? That is certainly a possibility, a statesperson of little national recognition or even state recognition could end up competiting against the campaign coffers of their opponet as well as those of multiple corporations backing their opponet.

The biggest foes of enviromental protection has been huge corporations.
The biggest foes of laws regarding the workplace has been huge corporations.
The biggest foes of getting rid of America's dependence on foreign Oil has been huge corporations.
The biggest foes of actual Family Wage paying jobs has been huge corporations.

The needs, wishes and desires of the lower class and middle class Americans often run contrary to those of huge corporations. Given the recent Supreme Court ruling, who is going to win out?

Jessie from Auckland, NZ   January 24th, 2010 12:07 am ET

I have said this before and say it here again..........that no-one should be telling anyone-else what they should give.

Jehovah likes a cheerful giver. You give from the heart what you can give. Whether big or small.

luckybee   January 24th, 2010 12:43 am ET

A. Smith, Oregon write :" Perhaps the Haitian people could name one of the massive tent citys there outside of Port au Prince, 'Bush City' to highlight the fact that American taxpayers gave Bush-Cheney $208 Million taxpayer dollars to give to the Haitian People in 2007.

In all Katholiek country only the the criminal family's (Mafia , Toton Macout, Ira, Eta ect. ) Got any money that comes in the country, and not the people.What about now adays; How many millions of taxpayers monney did the Obama' administration gives away ?Most of the demokrats are Katholieks.

luckybee   January 24th, 2010 12:52 am ET

Jessie from Auckland, NZ write :" Jehovah likes a cheerful giver. You give from the heart what you can give. Whether big or small.

Even if you know that youre monney goes to the devils?
read the 10 commandments
Exodus 20,1-26
You are not alloud to call God in his full name.Only this letters are known.
JHWH.Or you call him Lord.Remember the Babylonian captivity; because the jews call God Jahweh, was one of the reason for it .

A. Smith, Oregon   January 24th, 2010 1:43 am ET

@ luckybee, it must be a surprise to many that the Creator does not wear a name tag nor does he need one!

Indeed with the vast numbers of homeless people here in America and a number of them are homeless veterans that have served America with great sacrifice and courage, shouldn't America be doing more to provide shelter and warmth to them as well?

@ luckybee, America pours much more taxpayer dollars into the instruments of death than medical treatment, medical breakthru's and research for life combined.

I feel that is very telling for any civilization that is looking to last, the percentage spent on building death and destruction vs the percentage of health and life advancement.

Dodie   January 24th, 2010 2:46 am ET

@ A. Smith and anyone else!

Thank you A. Smith for seeing this situation with a glimmer of hope.

The Republican Party continues to have a decisive strategy when they campaign for their politician. Because the Supreme Court threw the American people to the Big Corporate piranhas, the American people will end up receiving a barrage of campaign propaganda pushing “axes of evil” on the other candidate. Many Americans will not want to spend the time nor energy in finding the underlying truth and the GOP will be counting on this!

As you stated, A. Smith: “Corporate control because of the Supreme Court ruling” is only one factor. We also have special interest groups and lobbyists completely out of restraints. This will be a de facto free-for-all in Washington this next year. This is looking like a preemptive strike on the Obama Administration. I am trying not to be so pessimistic; however, my only hope is President Obama will ‘circle the wagons’ as this will be a war! A war against the American people by the big corporate piranhas.

If anyone can see this more positive, please chime in!

luckybee   January 24th, 2010 4:45 am ET

A. Smith, Oregon writes:" Indeed with the vast numbers of homeless people here in America and a number of them are homeless veterans that have served America with great sacrifice and courage, shouldn't America be doing more to provide shelter and warmth to them as well?

Most of the veterans have fought the war of JFKennedy in Vietnam, isn't it? that was betrayed by his own brotrher Ted Kennedy, who has protested against it.Why don't you ask him why they treat the veterans zo badly?He was the cause why Vietnam war is not popular anymore?Fighting the communist is not popular anymore within the demokratic party.
A. Smith, Oregon writes:"@ luckybee, America pours much more taxpayer dollars into the instruments of death than medical treatment, medical breakthru's and research for life combined.

I feel that is very telling for any civilization that is looking to last, the percentage spent on building death and destruction vs the percentage of health and life advancement.

The duty of every country is to defend itzelf from theyr enemy's, even if they were invissible like the islam.I am Glad that Amerika is doing that
My country don't it is a pitty.
In every country that follow the learning of Jezus Christ exactly; they are not allowed to ruled over others. Only Johannes Calvijn , follow this learning exactly.His childrens?,they are the founder of the USA., the Pilrgimsfathers, who has fled the UK because of the Katholiek queen Mary Stuart, fled to the Netherlands, to learn how to rule a just country for everybody, including the Katholieks .

Dodie   January 24th, 2010 12:37 pm ET

@ Ted and Gerald

For those who have been leashed, caged and blinded by religion, from years of guilt and oppression passed on from generation to generation; it is truly a miracle anyone has the genius and courage to stand ‘out of the box’ and see with clarity!

Like a caged tiger pacing back and forth, you were able to find your way through the thick bars and total darkness of religious dogmatic propaganda; therefore, setting yourself free! You have both transformed into eagles that soar high above on the winds of truth! I commend and honor you!


The French entered Vietnam in 1949. In 1956, under the commander in chief, Dwight D. Eisenhower, the US Military Assistance Advisor Group (MAAG) assumes responsibility, from the French, for training South Vietnamese forces. John F Kennedy was not elected until 1960 and assassinated in 1963. The official Vietnam war date for the US was 1965 when Operation "Rolling Thunder" deployed sustaining American bombing raids of North Vietnam under President Lyndon Johnson.

One of America’s biggest travesties of justice was, and still is, the treatment of our war veterans. It is a complete and total outrage!

Ted   January 24th, 2010 2:55 pm ET

@ Dodie

Wow, now I feel just great!!
In my group of friends nationality or religion is never a subject. On politics we have fights, but never go for blood and depart as good friends as always.

On donations to politicians and parties following should apply:

A maximum of $10,000 a year per donor to any politician or party.
The donations of $5,000 or more must be listed in the homepage of the politician or party in full with amount and name of donor.
Any illegal donation above this amount should be treated as a crime to both donor and the receiving party, punishable with a fine of equal amount or jail in case of very large illegal donations.

Simple, but it will never pass either house, because our politicians are corrupt and love that green stuff!

luckybee   January 24th, 2010 3:24 pm ET

The real Amerikan war in Vietnam, started after de Golf of Tonkin incident, initiated by Joh F Kennedy; then the GI start pouring in Vietnam. remeber? 100 000 of them all fighting men, not by Eisenhower?He was too bussy to fight the Commi's in Korea.To Vietnam he send only Military Assistance Advisor Group (MAAG)

Dodie write:" One of America’s biggest travesties of justice was, and still is, the treatment of our war veterans. It is a complete and total outrage!

You better asked the Ted Kennedy about it, they have betrayed John F and Robbert Kennedy war.

Dodie   January 24th, 2010 8:04 pm ET

@ luckybee

Ni shi shuo Putonghua ma? ni shi na li ren? ni shi liao si ma?

ni de ying yu zhen hao!!!

wo bu dong jian den zong wen

Jessie from Auckland, NZ   January 25th, 2010 1:42 am ET

It's called "DIRTY POLITICS".

Is this Vietnamese I read above.

Jessie from Auckland, NZ   January 25th, 2010 1:54 am ET

@luckybee January 24th, 2010 12:52 am ET
I take your point. JHWH will be the judge in the end.

Dodie   January 25th, 2010 3:27 am ET

@Jessie from Auckland, NZ

It is 'pin yin' Chinese. I suspect Luckybee is from China. So I asked her some questions. Pin yin uses our alphabet with some minor differences.

luckybee   January 25th, 2010 6:03 am ET

No I am not I am from Holland dear Dodie
dear Jessie from Auckland, NZ I agree with you, only God wil judge at the end.

luckybee   January 25th, 2010 6:23 am ET

It was in Dannang, where the American GI's landed in Vietnam for the first time,under the command of General William Westmoreland .

Ted   January 25th, 2010 1:42 pm ET

@ Luckybee

I have met many dutch people in my life and they usually speak excellent english.
You may be living in Holland now, but you certainly are not a born native of that country. Surinam could be your original home, but to me it doesn´t make a difference.
However, your ignorant remarks do upset me a bit.

As far as Vietnam goes, it was President Eisenhower who sent the first advisers there around 1956-1957 or so, right after the korean war ended, being afraid of a domino effect! That was the beginning of our involvement in that tragic war.

In english we write katholieks "catholics" if you want to go on with your war against that religion.
The dutch I have met were always very open minded and liberal persons.

Ted   January 25th, 2010 1:50 pm ET

@ luckybee

After reading your last two blogs I noticed you had a very fast and wonderous improvement in your english!!

If you like to be funny than please start your own blog and write a bunch of idiotic comments, do not use LKL for that purpose.
Here we have people who are really concerned about the subjects being discussed and want an intelligent conversation.

Gerald Jolly   January 25th, 2010 2:59 pm ET

As for what is the middle east countries donating towards the Hatian catastrophe, along with every dollars they donate the enclose a "HOW TO MAKE A BOMB IN YOUR OWN HOME" note in the donation envelope,

ronald   January 25th, 2010 6:37 pm ET

Arabs and Haiti
I say, you help those in society for whom one day, that society may be contemplating helping yourselves.
Here is another insight to any Arab nation whom were to not assist Haiti.
When fundamentalists are overthrowing the governments held in power by royal families, the society shall remember how to decide to come to the assistance of those governments as well.
Assistance is a two way street.
You help Haiti today, the world may help you tomorrow.
You pledge money and never pay that pledge,means you are a coward,that goes for any nation.
The day will arrive when alternative fuel sources are implemented and oil will become a thing of the past.

ronald   January 25th, 2010 6:42 pm ET

IKHAN you brought up a good continuing topic for Larry King Live
Next topic should be what the vatican has done for Haiti.
Prayer alone will not fill the bellies of those in Haiti.
Prayer alone will not quench the thirst of those in Haiti.
I have nothing against the Vatican or Arabs in general,but the vatican should state their accomplishments to those in haiti too.

luckybee   January 26th, 2010 1:23 am ET

dear mr IKHAN The Vatican has done enough for the Haïtians he forbad them the use of condoms, remember?And recomended them What God have told Noah after the deluge,be vertile and multiply

Dodie   January 26th, 2010 12:54 pm ET

@ Ted

You are a wise man! Like you, I do not discuss religion or politics with friends. If one did that, they might not have any! Especially in the area I reside! Orange County is the Republican center for the entire west coast! Those of us that are not Republican always need to ‘circle our wagons’

@ Gerald

Thank you for validating my concerns. I am not a pessimistic person by nature; however, watching the country, I so dearly love; falling down on its knees is painful to watch. I have been watching our country disintegrate for 10 years. Only now people are finally able to see this.

Rose   January 26th, 2010 1:18 pm ET

The Quran (5:32) says: "He who saves a life, it would be as if he had saved the whole of humanity". Rather than picking at all the various religions and pointing to fault at this great time of need, it may be best to examine humane teachings within different faiths and do our utmost to help.

I hope that when the immediacy of emergencies subsides (they never do actually, there are great humanitarian crises occuring around the world, at all times – especially hunger and health) the spirit of these humane teachings are retained over any non-humane beliefs that may be held. This goes beyond religion and also extends to supporting continued abuses by various governments against populations elsewhere.

luckybee   January 26th, 2010 2:04 pm ET

Rose writes :" The Quran (5:32) says: "He who saves a life, it would be as if he had saved the whole of humanity".

Total Verses: 120
Revealed At: MADINA
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
Tsia Rose what about this?hayat?

luckybee   January 26th, 2010 2:10 pm ET

Book 38, Number 4359:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The verse "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side or exile from the land...most merciful" was revealed about polytheists. If any of them repents before they are arrested, it does not prevent from inflicting on him the prescribed punishment which he deserves.

It is written much clearer here, what the meaning is.

Dodie   January 26th, 2010 2:11 pm ET

@ Rose or anyone who understands this concept

While, Al-Azhar, Supreme Council of Islamic Research in Egypt, issued a statement saying: “ FGM has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practiced." and Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community stated: “that neither the Quran nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision” However, at the village level, those who practice FCM believe it to be religiously mandated.

I read 60% of the females in Egypt experienced FGM! Saudi, Iran and Sudan were also very high statistics.

I am having a difficult time understanding the practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and the reasoning behind the concept and practice!

luckybee   January 26th, 2010 2:21 pm ET

I am an Indo; that means I was born in Dutch Indies;Dutch Indie's was a territory of Holland, ergo I have never left Holland, and I am a real dutchmen. When General West Moreland landed in Dannang, who was the supreemcomander of the US forces? was n't it JF Kennedy in that time? Have you forgotten your own historry,Gentlemen?

Rose   January 26th, 2010 3:19 pm ET


Did you read what I wrote? I said religions should refer to humane elements within their respective faiths and do good with it. I can easily refer to similar negative verses from the Bible for example but what would that serve? How is that fair to Christians who are helping with the Haiti cause? What about all the other people who do good without refering to the "slay this or slay that" verses in their scriptures?

For all the references to killing (and there are plenty in a number of religions) there are also references to being humane. The endless spewing of verses can easily be applied within the Judeo-Christian context also and again serves no purpose.

If anyone has studied comparative religion, they will understand that many verses in scripture are referring to specific historical events. Many of the atrocities and justifications for killing in the Bible, including the utter destruction of 60 cities and killing of women and children (Deuteronomy 3:3-7) and God ordering the killing of 7 nations (Deut. 7:12) "show no mercy unto them". etc etc. The quotes are endless.

Holding verses such as these above decent people's heads who belong to this tradition (for example) again serves no purpose. Those ignorant enough to apply religious verses without understanding context is another problem in the world today.

I won't participate in the usual and pathetic quoting of "verse-wars" to villify entire groups of people. Let's do good within various respective faiths.

Rose   January 26th, 2010 3:44 pm ET


The abuse of religion is a historical fact. That is one reason why I am a humanist and do not favor religion, although I understand that it holds great meaning to many. I firmly think that culture and practice overides religion, especially in less developed parts of the world.

Culture and practice determines people's social position, it allows one group to dominate another. It also sets standards for various aspects of life such as sexuality, control over marriage usually for some economic gain. Culture sets the mindset of what is or is not acceptable within society. Women have usually paid the price for conformity. A great number of practices have no basis in religion and are negative – yet they continue. Culture is a very strong influence.

Ironically, I recently spoke with an Asian woman who was stunned that western women would mutilate themselves and have "plastic sacks" (as she referred to them) placed under their breasts to be more physically pleasing. She cited deaths and illnesses caused by such unnecessary actions. She thought it was barbaric and could not see the reasoning of our culture's acceptance of this. I cannot equate this to FGM – which is not voluntary. Still, it was food for thought.

Dodie   January 26th, 2010 6:40 pm ET

@ Rose

Thanks for the information and your knowledge.

I finally drummed up the courage to ask a co-worker I have worked with for 12 years; who is Muslim and from Iran. I have been hesitant about asking her this type of sensitive question, but she was fine with giving me an answer.

Her story is: The function of this practice, whether mild or severe, is ultimately to reduce a woman's sexual desire, and so ensure her virginity until marriage. The more extensive procedure, involving stitching of the vagina, has the same aim; however, reducing the size of the vagina is intended to increase the husband's enjoyment. She said there is a story underlying this practice.
Predominantly African women experience this; many of whom are not Muslim.

Rose   January 26th, 2010 7:24 pm ET

@ Dodie

FGM is a gross violation of women and is not based on religion. Non Muslim Africans also practice this. There are a number of reasons for FGM including superstition, lack of education and poverty. The majority of Muslim women in the world are not subject to it.

From what I have read, the Prophet Muhammad considered sexuality in marriage to be very important. He advised men to ensure their wives were satisfied and encouraged foreplay. This was discussed in substantial detail and does not carry the shame or guilt that some other religions project about the subject.

FGM, by its nature, would negate that pleasure. FGM is an unhealthy manner to keep female sexuality in check and has social consequences in certain cultures such as the "reputation" or chastity of women. Bottom line – as usual for women – it's about control.

Rose   January 26th, 2010 7:58 pm ET

@ Dodie

If any procedure was done for the benefit of husbands, it would be negated certainly after childbirth (if not before). That portion of your co-worker's story does not make sense. I'm not sure about vaginal stitching but hymen "restoration" is done by educated women in medically safe physicians' offices to "regain virginity" before marriage. This procedure is popular with many young women who are sexually active before marriage and wish to hide this fact with their new husbands. Islam is not shy about promoting female sexuality in marriage. FGM would contradict that.

Dodie   January 26th, 2010 10:59 pm ET

@ Rose

I understand what you are saying. I have seen ads for hymen restoration by qualified doctors. I a not sure how effective this is. Analogous is prostate surgery for cancer, all the blood vesicles must be connected or intact. Otherwise, you have the organ, just not functional.

It is just very difficult to comprehend a mother having her daughter's vagina stitched up because it is 'important' to make sure her daughter is a virgin when she marries. Not to mention it is most often carried out in the bush with no anesthetic or sterilized utensils! Talk about a tragic fate!

Ted   January 29th, 2010 12:07 pm ET

I enjoyed the exchange between Rose and Dodie and even Luckybee could write a proper text that has arms and legs.

Both the Quran and the Bible was written well over a thousand years ago and at that time the humans had other ideas on ethics. You could kill a person if you did not like the colour of his hair and that was it! Your only worry was the revenge of his family.

I second Rose, not religion, but ethic of our age should govern our lives. As Kar Marx said: religion is the opium for the poor. You take all the beatings of the life in hope of a better life after death, and by praying you seduce yourself, because it makes you feel good.
A prayer never helped anybody else, but yourself.

Dodie   January 29th, 2010 2:12 pm ET

@ Ted and Rose

I agree FGM is not written in any religious book, Quran or Bible; however, at the village level the poor and uneducated still practice FCM. They believe it to be religiously mandated. Again, the interpretation of these religious books is where humans run amuck!

@ Ted

Always a learning curve here! I continue to enjoy the information from other intelligent human beings! Plenty of room for thought!

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