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December 18, 2009

Obama working overtime on climate deal

Posted: 04:13 PM ET

Copenhagen, Denmark (CNN) - President Obama worked overtime for a breakthrough agreement Friday at the U.N. Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen.

Obama took part in third multilateral talks with world leaders and scheduled a second side meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

The U.S. president earlier told participants at the two-week conference nearing its end that "there is no time to waste" in forging an agreement.

"Now, I believe, it's the time for the nations and the people of the world to come behind a common purpose," Obama said. "We are ready to get this done today, but there has to be movement on all sides."

Amid signs the talks could be falling apart at a critical stage, Obama arrived Friday morning in the Danish capital and immediately ripped up his planned schedule in a desperate attempt to salvage a global deal to cut carbon emissions.

He abruptly canceled a ceremonial one-on-one meeting with Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen so he could jump into an emergency meeting with almost 20 key leaders, including representatives from China, Australia, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and India.

China's involvement is critical because it has been holding up progress toward a climate deal over whether the United States and other wealthy nations should pay to help developing countries deal with the cost of global warming.

Obama met with Wen for 55 minutes earlier Friday, a White House official said.

(READ MORE)

Filed under: Global Warming • Obama • Politics


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ckelly   December 18th, 2009 6:11 pm ET

The Copenhagen "Hopenchangen" summit is a farce.

This treaty translates into American, Canadian and European tax dollars are to be transfered (Developed nations transfer wealth to developing nations) to the tune of 30 billion over the next three years to help with global warming.

China, India, south America and southern Asia are considered poorer and developing. In addition to receiving our "GREEN" There will be lower emission and pollution standards for these poor and developing countries. While North Americans will be held to a higher standard.

Multinational corporations and the politicians behind them WANT a global treaty that will force us to abide by standards that are not equal.
for all countries.

This will be at the expense of national sovereignty-we will be obligated to abide by the agreement. Once signed-no backing out of payment and restrictions, money goes to the UN bank. New World Order.

Our tax dollars will subsidize business in third world countries with a growing consumer market. Competition here in North America will be cut because our standards will be hirer.

Manufacturing, industry and technology jobs will go to these countries where corporations can access subsidies and lower paid wages.
GREEN JOBS and NOT GREEN JOBs. Companies can purchase carbon emission credits cheaper in third world countries.

Exactly, how does this help the environment?

It does NOT help the average worker/tax payer here. The wealthy don't mind though!

Canada's Prime Minister got "The Fossil of the Year Award" in Copenhagan.....and has been shut out of talks because he is not buying into the nonsense.

Congratulations Prime Minister Stephen Harper-you are thinking about Canada's interests!


A. Smith, Oregon   December 18th, 2009 8:01 pm ET

At least the American President went himself to the Global Climate change meeting.

What may very well prove to be far to little and far to late, the Global Climate meeting at least widens the awareness of the need for global ethics where the greed of Multi-national corporations directly degrades global livability.

Shareholders are beginning to hold what their CEO's and company's do in regards to destroying the ecosystem to squeeze additional profits as unacceptable. Potential stock buyers are beginning to look up the vast environmental impacts company's have before investing their money into their stock options.

Denial and head shaking have led us to the mass disappearance of fresh water from Africa, India, Greenland, California, Arctic and Antarctic regions.

Awareness at least is the moral victory of this Climate Summit.


ckelly   December 18th, 2009 9:38 pm ET

Sorry A Smith-I disagree.

While I believe that we are all responsible to create a better planet and hope for the children of the future, the current science available in the media does not address natural and inevitable earth changes. Ask the dinosaurs, ask our ancestors.

The western world has sent more than a trillion dollars to Africa, since 1950's, national foreign aid as well as personal and charitable donations. Africa is worse off today than 50 years ago-and Climate change is not the cause. Dictators, wars, genocide and disease.

The problem has always been the unethical practice of "Accounting".

You can not hold multi-national companies accountable to anything-

They want an international treaty in order to "do business".

International business law. While nations lose their sovereign rights-a planet without boundaries.

Yes we need ethics, Yes there needs to be business morals. BUT what has been going on in Copenhagen has been about the European union and its own business interests.-NOT the environment.

If we could make CEO's accountable, then how did the Federal reserve and the big bank cartels' (world wide) get away with so much?

Its always about money-while there may be genuine philanthropists, the vast majority are self interested.

Each nation needs to do its part to develop its own green technology, its own solutions and then bring it to the world market. As separate nations.

This is a better solution than a group of "overseers" backed by corporations and special interests as the world has demonstrated.

We have been too trusting over the last 50 years.


A. Smith, Oregon   December 18th, 2009 10:33 pm ET

@ckelly, you stated, 'the current science available in the media does not address natural and inevitable earth changes.'

A remarkable alliance between the German Aerospace Center (DLR) and Nasa resulted in the Grace Mission in 2002.

The Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (Grace) mission consists of a pair of satellites which measures the Earth's gravity field. Specifically, the Grace Mission has recorded the tremendous loss of water in Africa, India, Greenland, Both Polar Icecaps and California.

As one spacecraft lurches and drags through the Earth's uneven gravity field, the second follows 210 km behind, measuring changes in their separation to the nearest micron (a thousandth of a millimeter).

It is the size of those changes detected by the twins that describes the nature and scale of the gravity anomalies – and consequently the changes in mass – over which they pass.

In the short span of 6 years, the Sacramento and San Joaquin River Basins which support the highly productive Central Valley have shed over 30 cubic km of water in that time.

In the short span of 6 years, India's fertile farming regions have lost about 109 cubic kilometers of water, more than double the capacity of India's largest reservoir is gone.

Africa has experienced a significant drying in the past three years. The volume of water lost from the land amounts to 334 cubic km, which is as much as all Africans have consumed over that period.

In regards to the fertile farms in California and India, the lack of adequate rain is forcing the farmers to pump ever more water from the water table which cannot sustain the volume being removed and is dropping lower each and every year.

In 1998 Nasa satellites detected a sudden reversal in the shrinking of the Earth's girth that has been going on since the last Ice Age. The cause was a sudden surge in polar ice melting which sent a huge movement of water towards the equator. The Earth at the equator was growing noticeably fatter. Scientists from all over the world in 2002 were gathered to discover where all of that excess water was coming from.

Obviously Nasa back in 1998 knew for a fact that Global Climatic Warming had occurred and yet made no public mention of that fact. Thru-out Bush jr's administration Bush-Cheney denounced that fact as unlikely 'theory's'.

Grace measured the loss of Greenland's massive glaciers when it first began its mission in 2002. Based on the previous figures, and comparing those to Grace's more recent survey, the figure is now 300% higher (melting 3x faster) less than 5 years later!

The remaining Greenland Glaciers are melting at a rate of about 58 cubic miles per year. If the ice cap were to completely disappear, global sea levels would rise by a whopping 21 feet.

@ckelly, you cannot lose 58 CUBIC MILES of fresh water per year in Greenland alone and not have significant changes and taken the same rates of loss elsewhere, you have significant Global Climate Changes solely based on water re-distribution, not including any of the additional dozens of additional significant changes.


Dodie   December 18th, 2009 10:49 pm ET

Did the summit in Copenhagen, Denmark create a revelation? No! However, decreasing denial and enhancing awareness is the first step. Baby steps is the way the world will be willing to change with regards to climate change.

Large corporations are ‘for profit’ meaning they only want to focus on the all mighty dollar and turn a blind eye to what they are doing to the environment. This does not reside only in the US, China and other countries are now having the same problem for the same reason.

In California, logging companies clear cut… meaning they would cut every tree allowing the top soil to erode and be carried in the winds. There is no sense of what we need to do to protect for tomorrow. There is only the sense of “today”. In the end, these logging companies are devastating the forests and creating deserts. I find this a paradox. What the logging company needs in order to survive in the future they devour today leaving nothing for the future. This type of short sightedness is our major problem around the world.

A. Smith, Oregon excellent observation and conclusions!


ckelly   December 18th, 2009 11:37 pm ET

@ A Smith-an excellent argument. I will be back with another perspective-not too much time at the moment.

@ dodie-I agree with your position.

There is much we can do here in North America, and there is much we can do to come forward with a plan that addresses clear cutting, pollution and alternatives to our water problems.

As YOU have said Dodie in past comments regarding over-population (particularly in coastal areas and decent infrastructure needs to be addressed.) All though, I am not tooting NASA's Horn, I am tooting the horn of Canada's infrastructure system which over the year's, has mitigated against "inevitable climate problems" in spite of Canada'a harsh climate.


lostemperor   December 19th, 2009 6:25 am ET

Our world leaders are letting us down again when it comes to climate change. It is the economy, stupid! Another face saving, do nothing proposal especially for the biggest polluter and ignorer of global warming for decades the US. Greenhouse gas emission, the greatest weapon of mass destruction used upon man and aminal as we speak.

When Obama promised change during his campaign, I definitely did not expect climate change!


Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia   December 19th, 2009 8:56 am ET

The only result is the carbon footprints the leaders left behind.


lostemperor   December 19th, 2009 9:35 am ET

With this speed there will be no North Pole in 50 years. At least we know who is on Santa's naughty list! 😦


Ted   December 19th, 2009 9:42 am ET

Anyone who believes that 148 nations with 148 interests can sit down and agree on anything in just 12 days is just naive.
Although it is undeniable that our climate is changing, it must dawn on the very last citizen before anything urgent will be done. We need patience and we must urge our politicians to work together instead of having political fights over everything. As long as we think country by country nothing will be done, we must think together as the human race on this globe.

Water cannot vanish, we always have the same amount of water. The fresh water ends up in the seas and after that we have saltwater that cannot be used for human consumption. Due to the higher temperatures we have more rain, again fresh water, and our job is to build large reservoirs so it cannor flow back to the sea. With all those billions we spend on wars we could do miracles, create jobs and a better world for all of us. Irrigation is the magic word, with a lot of pipelines. Ancient humans did it in the desert thousands of years ago building wealthy societies and they certainly did not have the machines and the know how we have today.
If our scientists stop developing all those fancy useless hightech weapons costing us trillions and turn to a more urgent problem. Instead of working on ways to wipe out the human race they should turn their attention to saving the same!

Just sending money to Africa will never solve a single problem, the money will end up in the pocket of corrupt politicians and dictators who have billions in swiss and other bank accounts.
We must send technical advisors who will supply the money, knowhow and the equipment for building dams, wells and pipelines for water. We must teach those people how to grow crops that will feed them in the future.
Don´t give them bread, they just lay back lazily and produce more children, but give them the ability to produce their own daily bread.


James C. Taliaferro, M.S., QMHP   December 19th, 2009 12:43 pm ET

Why can't Michelle go in Barack's stead when he is double-booked or splintered like he was between the Dutch Leader and the other leaders. I am sure just like Bill and Hillary she knows the issues just as well as he does.


James C. Taliaferro, M.S., QMHP   December 19th, 2009 12:45 pm ET

I think Barack was a success at Copenhagen. He sees things we don't see as a nation sometimes further down the road.


Carolyn   December 19th, 2009 12:52 pm ET

I don't want to be on the air but I do have something to say.
First, have patience with our president. He can't do everything in a "jiffy". What is wrong with the people we have elected to represent us. They act like 4 year olds who HAVE to be right, no matter what the correct answer is. If Obama says the sky is blue, they make up all kinds of propaganda to prove it is green.
Secondly, the Tea Partiers, rioters, and nay sayers, has anyone looked to see who they actually are? Are they the politicians, who have a job, great health care, and a good retirement? Are they the fluent people who have good health care and money in the bank? Are they retirees, set for life, with health care they can afford? And nothing else to do but spend their time fueling the staus quo.? If so, they do not want reform, it might take away some of their nicities in life. Us common people do not have time to riot, we are too busy working, (if we are lucky enough to have a job) paying medical bills, worrying and trying to feed our families. America is NOT just for the wealthy, America is for the PEOPLE. Who is making up new rules??????


Dodie   December 19th, 2009 1:17 pm ET

@ Ted

Your verbal fluency and deductive reasoning relating to this subject is Tantamount to excellence. Your interpretation.....stellar!


Ted   December 19th, 2009 1:42 pm ET

@ Dodie

Red, Red, Red........ Blush, blush.... your comment makes me blush. Thank you for your compliments, you are also doing fine with intelligent comments.


Ted   December 19th, 2009 2:05 pm ET

A. Smith,

You have a very intelligent reasoning and you are much better informed on data than I am, however I would like to insert my addition to this thema.
Those millions of cubic meter fresh water in Greenland is not only useless to us, because it is frozen, but it also covers the land that could be used for other means than to support a mass of ice.
The Vikings, when they discovered the island called it Greenland, because it was at least partially free of ice, so when it melts now is absolutly no cause for panic. We are just returning to the status of a 1,000 years ago.

The big problem is the overpopulation of California and the generous use of water. There are three possibilities: we must find a way to direct large amount of water to that area, the population must cut back on consumption or it must decrease, meaning they must move to other parts of the USA with plenty of water. Oregon and Washington has a lot of open space, plenty of rain, however the sunshine is a bit less. None of those are easy, but something must be done.
(Just to think that in the 1961 I almost moved to California)!

The Copenhagen conference was ready to collapse until our President arrived and at least saved part of it. It is the first step of endless other ones we must take to save the Globe for our children and grandchildren! Thank you Mr. Obama.


Brenda Stout   December 19th, 2009 2:54 pm ET

Hello: WHAT is to be believed 30 billion dollars of tax paying dollars being spent overseas that us tax payers pay for when are own country is headed for bankruptcy.


michael armstrong sr. TX.   December 19th, 2009 5:34 pm ET

Larry the diplomats were running for the airport trying to escape confronting Obama but got headed off at the pass and now the president is trying to put lipstick on a pig.


Dodie   December 19th, 2009 6:44 pm ET

@ Ted

I was wondering what the bright red glow emanating from the North East made reference to! Now I know. And I thought it might have been good ‘old’ Rudolph and his shiny nose making an early appearance!

Ah Ted, once again, your analytical cognitive process is superb. Living in So. Calif and personally witnessing the vase explosion of population, I am currently looking at Oregon or Washington for possible re-location. Every time I drive to Santa Ana, I feel I am on an obstacle course dodging synchronized baby-strollers. No need to be around when the lack of drinking water makes for a very ugly situation. Hopefully I will have 4 – 5 years. Today was beautifully sunny and 80 degrees. Don't you wish you are here now? :~)

@ michael armstrong sr. TX.

lipstick on a pig.??????

Your humor is absolutely outrageous and I just love it!


Dodie   December 19th, 2009 6:46 pm ET

@ Brenda Stout

Good point and what I call an understatement!!


A. Smith, Oregon   December 20th, 2009 12:23 am ET

@Ted and Dodie, thank you for your kind comments and great posts!

Ted, you know by lugging a 5 gallon container filled with water or gasoline, just how heavy Water actually is (more than 8lbs per gallon).

The rotational speed of the Earth near the equator is about 1,000 miles per hour. Mid latitudes are about 700 mph. If you are familiar with the tiny lead wheel weights that tire installers sometimes use to 'balance' a new tire, then you realize what would happen if you removed that tiny balance weight or worse yet, moved it to the entirely wrong place on the tire.

The massive ice caps hold the earth in a specific tilting angle which creates the present equatorial zone on the earth. If you remove those ice caps, you are going to lose the present tilt angle and consequently the current equatorial zone on the earth would change.

What I suspect and is backed up by the Grace Satellite mission is that the enormous Glaciers and Polar Ice Caps create a very large gravity field and when dissolved, that concentrated gravity field is gone.

The Earth's magnetic poles would likely shift to another position and until that new position became stabilized, all electromagnetic devices would be effected and creatures living on the surface of the earth would be more open to the solar ionizing radiation.


Jessie from Auckland, NZ   December 20th, 2009 4:16 am ET

Need a new mode of transport that is gentler on the environment to start with. Surely with the advances in technology someone can come up with something. Maybe man doesn't have the answers anymore.

Maybe this is all the signs of the times. We all better start praying hard to Jehovah our Creator to help us all.
--------------------------------

@ ckelly – December 18th, 2009 9:38 pm ET

Well-said.


Emmy Lalonde, Belgium.   December 20th, 2009 8:16 am ET

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3dFS4XOlGw&w=640&h=360]


robert (speedy) Gonzales   December 20th, 2009 10:16 am ET

To All– Please take a walk and truly open your eyes to the enviornment around you. How long can we polute to the extent we are poluting and not have concequence? I sometimes watch world events and wonder if I am the only viewer in the US- There are millions of people wanting a clean glass or water and Americans are worried about a mechanical mouse. There are babies being born and taught hate from the time of birth. Monetary Wealth I Wonder if it will buy the rich of all nations a glass water in Hades?


Susan Chelf   December 20th, 2009 12:16 pm ET

Since we can't depend on the world powers to make a binding treaty to halt global warming, it's time to shift gears. I think Larry King should ask Bono and Bob Geldof to be on his show and propose the idea of their forming a "Save the Earth" concert on the same scale as Live Aid. This would raise worldwide awareness of the problem, as well as raising funds to actually accomplish the mission. Take the problem out of the selfish hands like the leader of China, and put it back in the hands of the people!


Ted   December 20th, 2009 12:45 pm ET

@ A. Smith

I learned a long time ago that you should not worry about something that you cannot change or control and every coin has two different sides.

You must be in science well informed person, however your views are very pessimistic. Over the past few million years Greenland was frozen a few times, sub-tropical and perhaps also a desert.
As I wrote in my blog the Vikings have found it to be green a 1,000 years ago, meaning there was no or very little ice. Now it is covered with huge frozen water masses with a weight that cannot be calculated, yet the Earth is still turning smartly and we did not have a major weather catastrophe during this time. It seems our mother Earth can handle a few extra pounds here or there.

A person who goes to bed every night fearing that he will die in sleep will never have a good night sleep. The other one who plans something nice for the coming day will have a great sleep, although he may never wake up again. Do not worry about something that is beyond your control, it ruins your life.
We can do a lot for our nature, but the ice melting in Greenland or the Arctic is not what we can influance one way or another. We should use the extra water to turn deserts into gardens of eden.


Dodie   December 21st, 2009 2:17 am ET

We are getting ready to take our first step into the 22nd century with the advent of National Ignition Facility (NIF) which was finally completed in March, 2009. Once we, can control and stabilize this new technology, there will be NO Need for Co2 emissions resulting from factories, hydro-plants, etc. This will irradiate our world as we know it. This incredible technology will set precedence for mass new technology far beyond our wildest dreams.

NIF uses powerful lasers to heat and compress a small amount of hydrogen fuel to the point where nuclear fusion reactions take place.
NIF’s aim is to create a single (500 terawatt) ~whew~ flash of light that reaches the target from numerous directions at the same time, within a few picoseconds. It uses 192 beams that will direct nearly two million joules of ultraviolet laser energy in billionth-of-a-second pulses to the target chamber’s center. NIF seems to be similar to a neutron star by design. NIF can generate unprecedented temperatures of more than 100 million degrees and pressures more than 100 billion times Earth's atmosphere in the target.

The understanding, stupendous. The implications, unfathomable


Donald L Allen   December 21st, 2009 7:41 am ET

my vote is OBAMA is I rely do not like the way you run the country I told the people of the US what you wood do and that is what you or do you or up to no good and I well be glad wen you or out of the with and I hop if the McCain get in they over throe anything you or passing now you get the price I . the end do not like the way you or running the UA and IF I do anything El you want see it put on the mark in this country I think if you don't already have money you just make shere no one El get money tell the dam Rufe if you rely want to help get out of the US hop you like what I had to say and I well do what it take to get the just thing in my case you or the biges liair I,V every seng you no I dont no how you got the jub in the first place get the prictre


Donald L Allen   December 22nd, 2009 3:47 am ET

if I new way wood I tell you what do I look like a little wite slave booy Donald L Allen


Jessie from Auckland, NZ   December 22nd, 2009 6:51 am ET

These meetings do serve a purpose in that everyone can have dialogue and bring something to the table.


Jessie from Auckland, NZ   December 22nd, 2009 7:01 am ET

@ Emmy Lalonde, Belgium. – December 20th, 2009 8:16 am ET
--------------------------------
Thank you for the beautiful video and quite appropriate. I see a message in there. Made me almost cry.


Ted   December 22nd, 2009 8:42 am ET

@ Emmi Lalonde, Belgium

The music you provided is great, however I see you sneaked in a little advertising on real estate!!
I forgive you this time, but it should not happen again.


Dodie   December 22nd, 2009 4:13 pm ET

@ Ted

Votre declaration est entierement precis. Thank You!


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