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February 2, 2009

Octuplets: Eight times the ethical question

Posted: 08:15 AM ET

We'll be talking about this tonight on Larry King Live! We've got Kate Gosselin, mother of twins and sextuplets, as well as the star of TLC's "Jon and Kate plus 8" – stayed tuned for Kate's LKL Blog Exclusive Commentary later today!!

As more details of the mother who gave birth to octuplets come to light, ethicists are debating the moral quandaries involved.

The woman had six other children before the set of eight, which were only the second set of octuplets recorded in the U.S. The babies' grandfather said Friday that his daughter wanted one more child and didn't expect this to happen.

Kaiser Permanente's Bellflower Medical Center reports that all is well with the mother and children. Seven babies are breathing unassisted, and one is receiving assisted oxygen through a tube in the nose. Seven are being tube-fed donated breast milk.

It is unclear how this woman ended up with eight embryos in the first place.

(Read More)

Filed under: Larry King Live


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Delphine   February 2nd, 2009 9:25 am ET

It's fully irresponsebly to have octuplets, this woman didn't only endanger her own life but also that of innocent children. She should be charged for murder.And how someone can take care about 14 children is also beyond me.Those people will fall in reality if their children aren't cute babies annymore, how on earth they gonna pay college for so many children? I don't know...


Vincent Nizzardi   February 2nd, 2009 10:05 am ET

Larry-Baby, Delphine, she won't have to worry about it, you and I, and our children, and Grandchildren, will be paying for most,if not all of those 14 childrens needs.


Norma   February 2nd, 2009 3:30 pm ET

Delphine, why should she be charged with murder, you sound like the crazy one here.. and why don't you wait until this woman speaks out before giving your opinion. how do you know she can't care for them? it looks like the other set of octuplets are doing just fine.. maybe you just couldn't handle it as they say god only gives us what we can deal with..


Norma   February 2nd, 2009 3:31 pm ET

Delphine, why should she be charged with murder, last I heard they were all doing fine... you sound like the crazy one here.. and why don't you wait until this woman speaks out before giving your opinion. how do you know she can't care for them? it looks like the other set of octuplets are doing just fine.. maybe you just couldn't handle it as they say god only gives us what we can deal with..


Sia   February 2nd, 2009 3:44 pm ET

Larry,

I think it is a crime to bring children in this world and not being able to give them a decent life that too being a single parent.

She should be punished.


Tammy   February 2nd, 2009 3:45 pm ET

Seriously? People think they should have a say in how many children a family has? There was a time when having eight or more children was a common practice. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to judge. Anyone who has seen Jon & Kate Plus 8 can see how a family survives the struggles and blessings of having a lot of children. This family will need a lot of support and love - why criticize when we have an opportunity to celebrate their births, their lives, their beautiful little souls? Welcome little ones! Congrats to the mom & dad!


Brandy   February 2nd, 2009 3:47 pm ET

I can't say that I agree with this woman's decision to go through IVF after already having 6 children at home, but I am disgusted at all of the comments that make assumptions without knowing the facts! How do we know she can't afford to raise these children on her own? Lots of people do it! If she could afford the IVF, then she has some sort of decent income, as this treatment isn't cheap! Of course she wants her privacy, she doesn't want the media camped out at her home, employer, or neighbors! Let her come out with her story on her own time and then make your nasty comments! Atleast then you will know the facts!


huston   February 2nd, 2009 3:54 pm ET

How can having a litter of babies be ethical, but yet so many people object to letting people die with dignity because it's playing god! If this isn't "playing god" i don't know what is.


Jack   February 2nd, 2009 4:09 pm ET

Other news organizations are reporting that she already has book and TV deals...I really hope that is a rouse concocted by her newly retained PR company to solicit such offers. Please, stop the stupidity and do not support this crazy woman! She clearly is not rationale - what single woman would want 14 children under 7 and be ecstatic? Why does she deserve the attention? Just stop already!


Jean   February 2nd, 2009 4:10 pm ET

It should be an individuals right to choose granted doctors need to give us guidance on fertility matters. But doctors and our own bodies still can't stop nature from doing things from creating life. These are the very rear odds of IVF. The world should not give judgement because freedom still gives a women right to chose and not select children. Help support families such as this and not critize them.


REBECCA SMITH   February 2nd, 2009 4:14 pm ET

She wants two million to tell her story??! Outrageous!! She deliberately and purposely made her bed...NOW she can LIE IN IT!!
What's wrong with this country? Rewarding unethical behavior and even criminals? We're going down....too much immorality!! She is
more dog than human!! Anyone who pays her is no better than she
is ...morally! DISGUSTING!!!


Terry   February 2nd, 2009 4:25 pm ET

Who paid for all her invitro procedures. ...she apparently has had 6 medical procedures...I don't know about California....however my friend had the procedure last year and it cost her $20,000 cash.

Please don't tell me the California Welfare/Health system pays for invitro procedures. Who paid for for these many procedures?


Terry   February 2nd, 2009 4:26 pm ET

I apologize please disregard my previous blog ....I thought we were talking about the crazy lady with 14 kids. Mea Culpa.


Appalled   February 2nd, 2009 4:41 pm ET

Why do you morons keep bringing God into it? God had nothing to do with these births! Medical science and medical intervention caused this......


REBECCA   February 2nd, 2009 4:49 pm ET

I bet the doctor who did the implantation is waiting for his CUT!


Pat   February 2nd, 2009 4:54 pm ET

I think these babies were born for financial gain , the clinic and doctors should be held accountable, where is the ethics here? consider her circumstances, better judgement should be use, these doctors and medical facility should be investigated and fined. The most unfortunate ones are the innocent children, it is impossibble to support these children financially, mentally, and physically. For all the people in her hometown who pledge to support her, please start a child support fund for her to take care of these children. Put your money where your mount is.


Judy Dotson   February 2nd, 2009 5:03 pm ET

How will this woman support these kids or is this going to be on the back of taxpayers as well?


Kim Lewis   February 2nd, 2009 5:24 pm ET

Mr. King,
My husband and I have talked at length with our doctors about IVF. One thing that kept being repeated was the fact that only 2 embryos would be implanted. We were shocked to learn that this lady had 8 embryos implanted. I feel that the clinic shoud be shut down immediately. Her parents are in denial that this lady has a problem. Maybe in the future a law will be passed that you can't do IVF at a clinic you work at. Are they certain that she didn't just take sperm samples from people using the clinic. As a woman who is wanting a child so bad, this situation is just plain sickening. You always have to have people to abuse the system.


Donna   February 2nd, 2009 5:30 pm ET

The ethics experts I have seen on tv all say it is unethical for that many embryos to be implanted in a woman. Is it illegal?


Pat   February 2nd, 2009 5:51 pm ET

Why are you interviewing Kate Gosselin, she and her husband also got rich after having a multiple birth. They just bought a 1.3 million dollar home and they dont even have jobs.


Sia   February 2nd, 2009 5:54 pm ET

I am a Mom of two children. It is not humanly impossible to give proper attention to 14 kids for a single Mom. I can bet on it, its only a matter of time these kids will be sent to foster parents because of negligence. What is the point she is trying to make?? I fail to understand. If she loves children, she could work in a Day Care to fulfill her wishes to be surrounded by kids. Don't we have enough unwanted kids in our society to nurture...that she wants to bring more??


Mark   February 2nd, 2009 6:08 pm ET

Tammy and Jean,
How can you deny that her decision as a single mother of 6 to get IVF in the first place? For something to be moral, it has to work for everybody. What if everybody acted like her?

Let's take 2 scenarios, the first being the southern-baptist let-God-choose-how-many-kids-i-have mentality like this crazy lady, and the other scenario is the let's-be-responsible-and-only-have-two-kids. Let's assume also that said philisophies are passed to the offspring.

In scenario 1, let's me more moderate than this extreme case, and say they have 7 kids on average (that's how many she claimed to want in the first place.) the parents, kids, and grandkids of the parents in scenario 1 would amount to 2+7+(7*7)= 58 people!

In scenario 2 it would be 2+2+(2*2)=8 people. Which philosophy provides a sustainable rate of population growth? Can you imagine how many wellfare-supported stay-at-home moms we'd have in this country if people acted like her? C'mon, it's already hard enough for people to find jobs, and for the gov't to support those who aren't working, where's the morality in playing the part of brood-mare for a country with enough competition for resources already.


Katie   February 2nd, 2009 6:17 pm ET

When health professionals make decisions with patients about their care, we always look at the risk/benefit ratio: does the benefit to the patient outweigh the risks, and is the patient making a well-informed decision. Multiple births are always risky for both the mother and the babies–even twins. There is always twin A–who is bigger–and twin B–who is smaller and at more risk. In this case, there were 9 patients: mother and 8 babies.

The risks to mom and babies HAD to outweigh the benefits–medically and socially. Apparently, this woman did not have the money for the IVF treatments, nor did she have the resources to care for 14 children, including the 6 other children between ages 2 and 7. No one can care for 14 children under the age of 7! A day care facility wouldn't get a license for that! Human beings are not designed to be birthed in litters. Given new technologies, there was probably no need to implant 8 embryos, which makes me suspicious of the medical specialists involved. I think they were irrresponsible in their duty to do no harm.

That is what makes this unethical.


Lizzie   February 2nd, 2009 6:18 pm ET

I agree with Sia, I think that it is impossible to give enough attention to that many children – you can see just watching Jon & Kate plus 8 how difficult it is to stretch your time between 8 kids – add in 6 more and there is not enough time for each child, and there is no time for yourself – which is unhealthy, because while being a mom is a 24/7 job, you HAVE to make time for yourself and time for you and your significant other.

I do feel the responsibility for this falls with the clinic and they should be held ethically accountable, unless the woman stole the embryos and implanted them herself – then she committed a crime and should be punished accordingly. I also think the woman needs a psych eval as being so obsessed with being a mom could possibly lead some problems later – like munchausens by proxy (e.g. make the kids sick so that you can take care of them). I also think that the department of children and families in her area needs to be monitoring them and making sure that these kids are appropriately and adequately taken care of and not neglected.


Mike, Albany   February 2nd, 2009 6:32 pm ET

It's absolutely irresponsible and selfish for anyone who already has 2 (let alone 6) children to use fertility drugs and bring 6 or 8 more babies into an already overcrowded world. It's high time there was legislation limiting the number of children any family can have. Overpopulation strains our resources (water, food, sanitation, pollution,…) and reduces the quality of life for everyone else. Think about it: Hospitals are overcrowded, doctors cannot be seen for weeks or months at a time, freeways are congested with cars, long lines aboud,... People, we all need to be at least a little civic-minded here and not view our own genes as so important that we need to reproduce them 14 times over to be satisfied at the expense of everyone else. It's time to stop being selfish about reproduction. It's time to think about other people and the environment.


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 6:37 pm ET

anyone that is not financially stable has no business with one child, let alone 14. maybe this chick should call TLC and get a reality show like the other 2 families who have gotten quite wealthy off their kids


anderson   February 2nd, 2009 6:56 pm ET

I belive everyone's right, and the tax's paye's will pay for this also and this is simple unnatrual...........


Cheryl   February 2nd, 2009 6:59 pm ET

In days past, large families were common and having 14 children wasn't all that odd. My great-grandmother had 16! However, not every child survived to adulthood and the older ones helped take care of their younger siblings. This strange woman who birthed 8 kids the other day is obsessed with babies, now has a whole baseball team under the age of 8. That is crazy and irresponsible. Think of the tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs just to deliver the kids and wean them off their respirators. Who's paying for that? The IVF place ought to have limited the number of embryos implanted. And the woman herself needs some heavy-duty psychotherapy. (Although it's probably too late for that, huh.) She filed for bankruptcy last year, I understand. Her own parents disapprove of their daughter's behavior–and well they should, since the entire tribe will be living with them! This is absurd. Just because you *can* have eight kids at one time doesn't mean that you *should.* And the argument that people should be free to have as many kids as they wish ought not extend to unmarried, bankrupt, crazy women stuffing their uteruses with babies.


Jules   February 2nd, 2009 7:07 pm ET

Right on, Mike! Well said! Her attitude and selfishness are border line criminal and certainly idiotic.


Jaylind   February 2nd, 2009 7:23 pm ET

I'm wondering if the doctor's mentioned selective reduction to this woman and if not, why. Also, I'm with Pat on the Kate Gosselin interview...although I believe Jon and Kate are great parents, it seems like they're making a killing off their children...they claim that "TLC" has been the hardest job they've ever had..they're hardly 30, what do they know about hard jobs? They never got a chance to endeaver their careers...Well at least the benefits are good..free plastic surgery, elaborate vacations, and all the other free stuff they've received since that show began. I just feel that fertility should be limited to those who don't already have children, and for those who are prepared to financially take care of multiples..there's no telling where Jon and Kate would be right now if TLC had'nt come along.


Linda   February 2nd, 2009 7:28 pm ET

This "mother"'s 6 older children range in age from 2-7 years old, and at least one of them has autism, a lifelong disability that often strikes siblings!!! Now there are 8 more babies, reportedly from the same sperm donor. Obviously these kids, even if they are spared any disability, will not be truly nurtured in any meaningful way. Even if "mom" is rich and hires nannies, the kids are doomed to not have the opportunity to be seen as individuals, to have a loving parent (not a nanny or neighbor or relative or whatever...) who is available to guide and love them in ways that will help them grow into secure, responsible adults. I feel sorry for them all.


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 7:47 pm ET

i agree with jayland and pat as well. i'm sure jon and kate's kids benefit from all the gifts and money they receive; however, what if their show had never come along? they already had twins, they had to know that more fertility would mean multiples and they openly admit they were not prepared for what they got. unlike this woman with 14 now, she's not even healed from this event and is already seeking a multi-million dollar deal. how ironic.


Veronica   February 2nd, 2009 7:53 pm ET

I agree completely with the previous comments by Katie and those of Lizzie. I believe the physician's oath of doing no harm was clearly violated. Human population grows geometrically...we are pushing ourselves off the planet! The resources needed to feed and nurture ourselves will be impossible to attain. Those eight children will produce, if each has the same goals as their mother, over 16million offspring in three generations. This is sane? I feel most sympathetically for thos poor babies.


wes   February 2nd, 2009 8:22 pm ET

As a parent of 3 young children, i am currently paying $670 month for health insurance through my employer. It's obvious that us taxpayers will be taking care of the lady with 14 children, but i would like to know how the Gosselins afford their health insurance since they don't have jobs (unless they're on TLC's payroll) and if that's the case, what would they be doing for health insurance had this show not come into play for them.


Trina   February 2nd, 2009 8:49 pm ET

I agree with Pat (financial gain) This lady probably thinks she is going to get lucky like the Gosselin's or the Dugger's with a tv series. And by the way, I would like to know if the Gosselin's have a "plan b" should their show ever get cancelled, god forbid.


Kat   February 2nd, 2009 9:06 pm ET

I believe they should be removed from her and given new homes with a stable mother and father. She has proven that she doesn't make good decisions. That money would have been better spent on housing and food. What will stop her from doing this again?


Evelyn Nelson   February 2nd, 2009 9:06 pm ET

I don't see a problem with a person having so many children as long as they are capable of supporting them without government help. Generations ago, women had many children and families were much larger than they are now.


Kat   February 2nd, 2009 9:09 pm ET

I heard that she doesn't use the income to get pregnant, she used winnings from an accident case she won. She has to live at home with her own mommy and daddy, how responsible is that. Where are the dads?


Seth   February 2nd, 2009 9:09 pm ET

Larry,

Who is paying her Hospital bill?

ALSO

Why does the hospital feel it is okay to announce what should be a private event? Isn't it a violation of medical ethics to call a press conference?


Brian   February 2nd, 2009 9:11 pm ET

Who's going to pay for these kids?IMO if they can't,just throw them on welfare with the rest of the irresponsible idiots in this country.Its not bad enough that this country already has problems finding people jobs,now there are 8 more people who will end up living off the "responsible" people of this country.

Look at China and what their lack of population control has led to..they finally realized enough is enough,when will the US open its eyes?


Mary Ann Williamson   February 2nd, 2009 9:11 pm ET

Until it was discovered that the mother of these poor babies wasn't white, it was the greatest miracle the media had ever seen. If the parents had been a white, married, fundamentalist Christian or devout Catholic family any discussion of the safety of the mother or ethics of this procedure that produced the octuplets would be shouted down as verbiage from "baby killers". There should be restrictions on this procedure, women shouldn't go through these extreme multiple births. It is sad that women are trained to have so little concern for themselves and their other children.


tiro paul   February 2nd, 2009 9:12 pm ET

who is payin the hospital bill ? and how does she expect to support them for the next 18 yrs with no income ?... does that she expect us to , ....probaly.............paul


Amy   February 2nd, 2009 9:13 pm ET

Someone mentioned "...God only gives us what we can handle". HUH?! God had nothing to do with this atrocity. This woman lives off her parents' backs and has had SIX kids in FIVE years to prior to this. These poor helpless babies were NOT conceived in love, and can not remotely dream up any type of physically and emotionally healthy and happy lives ahead of them.


Len Green   February 2nd, 2009 9:14 pm ET

What's the big deal? She wanted more children. Why the outrage.?After all it is her business. If a Kennedy had 14 children would there be outrage? Get out of the peoples personal business.

Wish I had 10,12, or 14 children.

Kindest regards.
Len.


Sickened   February 2nd, 2009 9:15 pm ET

Who lets single, unemployed people reproduce that much? Who is going to pay for this? The taxpayers? How will these poor, helpless children get enough attention and love? This woman lives with her parents currently, what do they think of this situation? Where are their morals and ethics in this situation? I am shocked and appalled at this. I hope loving families get a chance to adopt these beautiful children and give them the loving home that they deserve. There are so many people out there that want children and can not have them, and she is trying to exploit these children for money?! Unbelievable!


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:15 pm ET

I am outraged with a woman having 8 children on top of 6 children. I am tired of paying for people who are so selfish, they continue to have children and NOT work to pay for them… We end up paying for everything. I only hope this will create a law that no more than one child per fertilization.

She now needs to get out and work, work, work, work for all 14 children’s clothes, education, health care!

If one dollar comes from tax money to pay for anything for her children, then all bets are of as far as privacy is concerned!

This woman is selfish, selfish, selfish, as she does not care about her children or their medical problems as they get older as long as she gets what she wants!


Sharon   February 2nd, 2009 9:15 pm ET

With 14 children this woman is unethical at best ! She is putting the health of her children at risk. There is no way a single woman with 14 children can feed, clothe, and educate her children properly to prepare them for the future. Sooner than later, it will be necessary for the public to assist in support with insurance, health care, etc. In addition, overpopulation is a critical problem in the world, and this attitude is selfish and ignorant putting every member of our species at risk.


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:17 pm ET

So, who will be changing 8 diapers every hour of the day? Not to mention all the trash and cost the thousands of diapers will be! GOOD GRIEF!! What a SELFISH woman.


Emily   February 2nd, 2009 9:18 pm ET

The Doctor should be financially responsible for the care of these children. It is societal negligence on the part of the doctor and mother. All you taxpayers get ready to dig a little deeper.


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:18 pm ET

The world is already over populated. It is women like this, so selfish, that we will not only exterminate all other life forces on this planet because of too many people, but she will be the end cause of the human demise!


margie athy   February 2nd, 2009 9:19 pm ET

Who is paying for the octuplets hospital and medical care?


Marg   February 2nd, 2009 9:19 pm ET

Wrong,wrong,wrong! The maternal equivalent of corporate greed!


Karen Taber   February 2nd, 2009 9:19 pm ET

how was this woman eligible for health care with kaiser in her 3rd trimester? what are the cost estimates associated with delivery and care of the babies – 30 days in the hospital! 44 doctors attending the birth?
My family is insured with Kaiser at a cost of $750 per month. I was recently required to pay for a $800 colonoscopy because of a high deductible policy (the only way we can afford insurance).
Is this why? are we paying the price of this one pregnancy!
how was this approved?


Judy   February 2nd, 2009 9:21 pm ET

If the mother of the octuplets wants millions for her story or pictures, she should have to give the money back to the hospital if she is not covered by insurance. If she is not covered by insurance and has no income she will be on welfare. That makes all of us paying for her 14 children. I'm not sure what she was thinking. No husband, lives with her parents in a small house..already had 6 children. She found a Dr. that would impregnate her with 8 embryo since she didn't want to dispose of them. What the heck was she and the Dr.thinking?


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:21 pm ET

THIS WOMAN IS SELFISH, SELFISH, SELFISH!!! She obviously does not care about her children to put them at risk medically. And these children will have all kinds of medical problems all their lives.

All she wants is WHAT SHE WANTS!! I am a social worker, and I see this kind of stuff all the time… except for a woman with 14 children. Good Grief!


sue   February 2nd, 2009 9:21 pm ET

this woman can't support 14 children. we will end up paying for them. i might have to stop paying taxes. she is looking for attention and that's why she had all 8, she is money hungry and wants someone to pay her. if she wasn't then she wouldn't be asking for $2 million dollars. is she even a legal citizen?


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:22 pm ET

I disagree… it becomes our business when we start paying for their medical and educational needs!!!


shannon   February 2nd, 2009 9:22 pm ET

I think its ammazing! but at the same time it's also selfish of her if she not able to privide for these children.


Sharon   February 2nd, 2009 9:24 pm ET

I believe women should have the choice to have as many children as they can afford. She can me married or single but she must be financially able to take care of multitudes of children. She should not expect the government (ie: the tax payers) to take care of her and her children. I worked and was married and had a tough time raising two children, I can't imagine raising 14 as a single mom.
I have to disagree with this woman's decision to have this many children and the doctors that allowed her to do it.


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:24 pm ET

MARG: Absolutely. This is exactly the same as Corporate Corruption! This woman will end up on Welfare and we ultimately pay for all of it!


Nicole   February 2nd, 2009 9:25 pm ET

I would like to know if her existing children are already being cared for through the medicaid system. Why has Kaiser not commented on her hospital bill? Is this coming from state funding/federal funding as well? If this is the case, what can we do as a society to prevent this abuse of the medicaid/welfare system?


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:25 pm ET

I Want to see this woman get out and work, work, work, work for all those children. She is so greedy


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:27 pm ET

I WILL NOT WATCH ANYTHING THIS WOMAN TRIES TO MAKE MONEY ON!!! I will not support in any way; her using her children or herself to make money from this. I want to see her get job that will pay for 14 children!

I hope a law will be passed stopping these huge numbers of children being born.


Jimmy   February 2nd, 2009 9:28 pm ET

Does she need a day care license to take care of her kid's? Haha....lol..


Sally   February 2nd, 2009 9:28 pm ET

Are the taxpayers paying for her 6 children already? If she is on state assistance, I suppose she is comfortable enough to add 8 more to the bill.


Erica   February 2nd, 2009 9:28 pm ET

She should not have gotten pregnant with her already having six. She should not expect other people to support her, that was her choice and she should have thought twice or more about it. I do not feel sorry for her.


majken   February 2nd, 2009 9:28 pm ET

I counted my dogs tits. I think there are eight.
Then I counted mine-two. hmmm.
logic? gods logic?!

I hope they have to pay taxes for each.
schools, roads, power, trash, gas produced by each, ect.


mary   February 2nd, 2009 9:29 pm ET

This woman can have 50 kids if she wants them as long as our tax dollars aren't used to support them–that's her job.


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:29 pm ET

Kate! WE CREATED these lives... there is no purpose


rk   February 2nd, 2009 9:29 pm ET

If we agree that it's her choice to have these children, then we should also agree that it's her responsibility to pay all costs for them – at least not we the taxpayers


Mark   February 2nd, 2009 9:30 pm ET

Her decision becomes my business when my tax dollars pay for her medical bills. MAYBE she is independantly wealthy but I wouldn't bet on it.


P.Balija   February 2nd, 2009 9:30 pm ET

Does she plan on supporting all 14 children that she has or will the "US Taxpayer" pick up her bill? I believe that there are plenty of women around that can preform the job of "human incubator" but I would like to believe ,their are very few , with very little ethics like her, who would go through this process , with no regard to the humans that are produced, just for money sake.


Dodie - California   February 2nd, 2009 9:31 pm ET

I AM OUTRAGED! SHE IS GREEDY AND SELFISH! SHE WANTS ONLY WHAT SHE WANTS. She does not care about her children to do this!!!


Teddy Katz   February 2nd, 2009 9:32 pm ET

Larry,

Please ask your medical guests (Dr Sophy specifically) why it's not the public's business if we are going to foot the bill when she's on welfare & food stamps.

Please also ask Kaiser Permanente who is paying for the neonatal care of these 8 babies and please ask if it is safe to assume that the bill will be in excess of $6 million.

Finally, please ask Govenor Schwartzenager if he is bothered signing that check.

This women is immature & irresponsable.


Gary Mitchell   February 2nd, 2009 9:32 pm ET

Who pays for the in hospital care -the taxpayer


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:33 pm ET

We should not have to pay for her GREED!! She needs to pay for everything!

I hope this will create a law to stop multiple fertilizations


Beverly   February 2nd, 2009 9:34 pm ET

There has been no mention of the mother's source of income to support the family. Does she support her other other children or are they on any kind of public assistance? If so, how can IVF be ethically justified by the physician who performed the procedure?


Marc Kamin   February 2nd, 2009 9:35 pm ET

The experts say that this multiple birth issue is a private one and concerns only the health of the mother and the children, but I disagree. My reasoning is this – is public money paying for the support of the six other children, the in vitro fertilization process and/or the enormous hospital expenses incurred by this multiple birth? How is this single mother going to support fourteen children? If she is going to receive public assistance, then it is the publics business.


Freda Hall   February 2nd, 2009 9:36 pm ET

Grandmother of 10 and one on the way.

I cannot believe how people seem to feel that it is their business to criticize the birth of these 8 brothers and sisters. If you are not the baby sitter or she is not asking you to feed and clothe them which she is not. Mind your own business if they were not meant to live they would not have. Let this woman and her family enjoy her kids which obviously she does. She is not stupid, she has been observed to be a loving mother to the children she already had and there is no reason to think that she won't be to these babies when she is able to take them home.
Next thing I would like for some of the (I know what is best for everyone else folks) is when those kids are old enough to have pictures taken, to pick out which one they would have killed. Yes that is the word, killed, no matter what word you use reduction, termination or abortion, you just get rid of the ones that are over the acceptable number.
No, if God let them live who are you to say they should not.


Ed Levy   February 2nd, 2009 9:36 pm ET

I don't care how many children anybody has so long as I DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. Meaning, no one on Welfare should be permitted to have any more children until they are able to fully support them by themselves, without using my Tax Dollars to do so.

This is a Sick woman. She's a single parent completely unable to care for her 6 children on her own as evidenced by the fact that she had to move back in with her parents. I can't even imagine why anyone would want more children when they are unable to care for the ones they already have. I am a complete loss to understand why no one intervened here to make her see reason. If this woman collects any type of Government assistance to support these children, I plan on suing the Government to prevent them from using my tax dollars to do so.


DMR   February 2nd, 2009 9:37 pm ET

Let's face it people, I bet she was paid to do this. The doctors are at fault too, I bet they knew her situation and they knew this situation would bring some notoriety which they like. Shame.


Justin Ward   February 2nd, 2009 9:37 pm ET

It is interesting to me that you all are questioning whether or not the mother is taking advantage of her children in thinking of the option to publish a book or use the media assist her financially. Are you not making money off her story? Why shouldn't she make money through you since it is HER story. It is an outrage that her ethics are questioned. If it provides these eight a babies with food, shelter and a quality of life, you have not place to question her choice.


Carole Tessicini   February 2nd, 2009 9:38 pm ET

I agree with Mary . . . people can have as many kids as they want so long as they're not on the public dole and can actually afford to give them a healthy rearing. My guess . . . TAX DOLLARS!


Susan Caroli   February 2nd, 2009 9:38 pm ET

I was not impressed with the crystal ball commercial, and I certainly do not understand why it was chosen as the most popular Super Bowl commercial. It worries me that people would find that entertaining. I just didn't get the humour!


elizabeth brooks   February 2nd, 2009 9:39 pm ET

This never should have happened. I am on unemployment the big Terminater is talking about reducing my benefits. Now we are going to have to support this woman....six kids weren't enough? She needed 14 to feel complete and we as a state are probably going to support these kids, but she wil make money off a book. Shame on the doctor or doctors who abetted her in this crime against the State.


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:40 pm ET

Freda Hall!!!

Fine! they YOU can pay for all their medical costs!!!


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:42 pm ET

FREDA:

God has nothing to do with it. If it was, she would NOT be pregnant. It was Human intervention!

If she left it up to God, she would not have 14 children!!!


Sickened   February 2nd, 2009 9:42 pm ET

If this woman is on assistance, then ALL of her children should be taken away from her and put up for adoption. There are excellent families with real jobs that would love to have these children. What a selfish woman! Someone please fix her so she can not have any more children please!!!


margie Ridgeway   February 2nd, 2009 9:42 pm ET

HOW ON EARTH DID THIS WOMAN GET THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE TO HAVE INVETRO...I THINK IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE AND WHO WOULD PAY FOR THAT.......


dj Wolahan   February 2nd, 2009 9:43 pm ET

How is the mother going to financially support 14 children? Are the taxpayers going to be on the hook for supporting these children? Logic dictates that this is probably true, so why are we even debating the ethics of this? What about her mental stability?


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:44 pm ET

Sickened...

I work for social services. There are too many children and not enough homes!!!


Joyce Goggin   February 2nd, 2009 9:45 pm ET

I am confused. We are outraged that a woman has given birth to eight live babies and chose not to have any of them aborted.
At the same time we are not outraged at the numbers of babies who are killed by abortion every day.
I always thought life was precious and to be honored. If we do not value life what is left to value that is more worthy?


Ethel Mileski   February 2nd, 2009 9:45 pm ET

How many children a woman has is their business unless there is tax money involved. I have enough problem paying for my family. I shouldn't have to support someone else's. If she does earn money from this, she should have to repay any tax money expended.


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:47 pm ET

dj! I agree. If she wanted to be around children, then be a pre school teacher! There are many women who love children, and they chose a vocation that allows them that priviledge!


Trina   February 2nd, 2009 9:48 pm ET

To Freda Hall...like it or not, it's a scientific fact that life doesn't start at the time of conception, it's starts when the fetus is delivered...so now, the term "killed" is inappropriate in your blog. generally when one "kills," they are tried in a court of law and convicted of murder. keep religious beliefs out of the medical science world, please.


Claudia DeSantis   February 2nd, 2009 9:48 pm ET

Larry, has anybody who is defending this woman's right to have eight babies heard of overpopulation of the planet, increasing competition for limited resources, deforestation, waste disposal problems, water shortage, etc? I guess, as the superior species we must have the right to blow out the planet with our ignorance. We are reproducing at a rate comparable to rats. Someone mentioned people having even more children in the past. However, in those days, survival rates were very low and life expectancy was very short. The overpopulation of the planet is definetely an ethical issue. Since most humans did not "evolve" to understand that, countries must start passing laws limiting the number of child per family. This is embarassing!


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:49 pm ET

I have lived in China for a couple of years. Believe me, you have no idea what it is like to live in a country with 2 billion people.


Susan   February 2nd, 2009 9:53 pm ET

Since when do we have the right to judge a women's reproductive rights? Didn't Roe vs. Wade took care of that issue? I thought a woman's reproductive rights were her own. Does "pro choice" only apply to ending a life?

It is hard for those who cannot fathom raising six children without a husband to imagine somone who can and chooses to add to her family. Perhaps she doesn't have a husband, but her children do seem to have support from the grandparents. May I point out that having a husband at birth does not guarantee there will always be a husband or father in the picture, whether through death or divorce.

And, who are we to judge? We do not have enough details. The media has blown this all out of proportion, drawing conclusions from "what if" scenarios, as opposed to actual facts. For example, how many embryos were implanted on her previous pregnancies? It is highly unusual for every implanted embryo to actually implant. If a large number were implanted on previous pregnancies, and resulted in single or twin births, should she have known to expect anything different this time? How many implantations has she had that did not result in a pregnancy?

I think what gets me the most in this story is the outcry that she should have selectively reduced the embryos. To some people, that is not an option, and just as we don't forbid people to end a life, we shouldn't forbid them to sustain one either. Many people do not elect to have amnioscentesis done during a pregnancy, because they believe regardless of the outcome, it would not change their actions.

Let's all get off our moral highhorse and stay out of this woman's reproductive rights and wish her and her children well.


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 9:59 pm ET

Claudia!

Unfortunately, these people continue with the belief system held 2,000 years ago. They are not living in today’s world. They have no knowledge of what you are talking about including enough plastic wastes in the Pacific Ocean, the size of Texas.

When we start exterminating ourselves due to over population, then they will say, it was written in the Bible and the end date is soon. Its useless.


Jan   February 2nd, 2009 10:00 pm ET

This mom is selfish. She could not have wanted to nuture the 6 children she already has much less bond with or nuture these 8 new babies she now has. She wanted something; mostly likely attention, fame and fortune...


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:02 pm ET

Susan:

It becomes my issue if my Tax dollars are paying for her children’s health care, education and everything else she will need.


lj   February 2nd, 2009 10:03 pm ET

Now I know why California is going broke


Jason   February 2nd, 2009 10:04 pm ET

The Government or a doctor has NO RIGHT to decide which women can and cannot give birth to children!!!!!!!!!!!

IVF is a great medical procedure for couples who have medical conditions making it difficult to conceive naturally.

To go through the process in our state we were interviewed by the Chief Doctor and financial persons at the Center multiple times. Everything was explained to us in great detail, pamphlets and information was given to us to read over before deciding both medically and financially. We were lucky to be approved for a partial state grant based on our finances which were reviewed and we still had to pay over $5K for 1 IVF cycle.

These circumstances are unusual..She already has 6 kids all under
7 yrs. Does she really need to go through IVF over and over when she has so many kids???

As a tax payer in this economy my concern is a 33 yr old single mom with 14 kids and NO JOB, how is she going to support ALL THE KIDS?? Hope her family has LOTS OF $$$$

Unlike her I wouldn't get Gov't assistance, My wife and I both have college educations, FT jobs, have a home and investments (or whats left these days) WE ARE GOING TO STRUGGLE WITH TWINS IN A FEW MONTHS... ..

CAN I HAVE A GOV'T BAIL-OUT ????


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:06 pm ET

You are correct! The population increase in California within my lifetime has been 25 million or more people. That is frightning.


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 10:07 pm ET

Ok Freda...I'm with Trina and "Outraged in California" as such, I don't believe God has a license to practice medicine; therefore He did not save those kids, licensed physicians did.


Claudia DeSantis   February 2nd, 2009 10:10 pm ET

Freda, the point is not abortion which I am totally against. The point is "why even get pregnant when you already have 'two' children to care for." Oooops, she had six, but she still needed more. Obviously, she never cared for their emotional needs or wellbeing. It is very hard to bring up a couple of children with the appropriate financial and emotional support, imagine 14! It is humanely impossible! These children will need guidance as they develop their personality, money for food, clothes, college, etc. Who is going to provide such thing? The mother? Good luck!


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:12 pm ET

Jason:

You seem intelligent, logical and probably will be a very good father as you are aware of the stress/finances and prepairing for it.

I think it is unethical for any MD to plant 8 eggs. I seriously doubt this was even done in the USA!

I feel sorry for the children. Can you imagine the competition for your mothers love and touch? Competiting with 13 other siblings!


Barb   February 2nd, 2009 10:13 pm ET

The mother is a very selfish person who did not clearly think this out. HOWEVER, I am more angry that Larry King will Have Rod Blagojevich on for yet another BS session. Enough with this guy already. I hope others will write in also.


Becky   February 2nd, 2009 10:15 pm ET

Just watched the show about the octuplets. Whose business is it if she has that many kids??? Mine if I'm helping her pay her bills. She is unemployed, so who's footing the bills, Indigent Care? And who is indigent care? Me and you if you have health insurance. I am tired of paying for this kind of crap, and I can't even afford to go to the doctor even though I have insurance. Because I have insurance, I get charged an enormous deductible and then a percentage of the bill even though my premiums are outrageous. And then there is the cost of prescriptions.
But I digress. How about taxes to cover schooling for 16 children and if they have special problems, then taxes to cover special programs, and, oh, the SSI check that is sure to follow each one for their entire life. And what about mom? Surely she will qualify for disability after having 16 children, especially since she carried 8 at one time.
I could go on and on because I am so fed up with working 2 to 3 jobs a day so I can pay for everyone else to live off me. And Larry, do you really need to ask WHOSE BUSINESS IS IT ANYWAY???
I


MaxB   February 2nd, 2009 10:18 pm ET

Medicaid is broke and benefits are cut daily to the elderly and mentally ill–but apparently, has enough money to pay for this woman and her 14 children? The doc who performed this unethical task needs to have their license revoked. The media needs to stay away from this woman and not buy her story or let her benefit from this act. This is why our country is in so much trouble–give us back our tax dollars and let us decide how the money should be spent.


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:18 pm ET

The children will be the ones who suffer! That is why I think this woman was extremely selfish. The children will continue to suffer even if other family members help or outside help. As the children will always want to be with their mother. How can she hold and nurture 14 children???


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:21 pm ET

Barb:

I agree with you. I am tired of Blagojevich. He is most likely a sociopath. He will never look at or feel bad over his behaviors.


tokovon   February 2nd, 2009 10:22 pm ET

Jimmy brought up a good point having a daycare license. Being an inspector you are only allowed to have a total of 6 children, including your own in the count, and no more than 2 under the age of 2. And I agree with everyone who said it is our business if tax dollars paid for this. But you know whats gonna happen: She'll get the House, some car company will give her a van, she'll get free diapers for a lifetime, and no doubt big endorsments. So now someone will try to break her record and we as Americans who are just trying to be "helpful" are kind of encouraging this. From what I heard she had embroys left over from the last time, and had all 8 implanted and when refused selective reduction. She doesn't come from a stable family with a large support network, they filed for bankruptsy last year and gave up their house, oh well at least next year she will get 53,000 in tax deductions. SICK


Outraged in California   February 2nd, 2009 10:23 pm ET

Max:

I suspect the woman had this done, out side of the U.S.A. I think most MDs would be afraid of a lawsuit by implanting 8 eggs in a woman.


Delores   February 2nd, 2009 10:24 pm ET

Right or wrong, the babies are here. None of our opinions matter.

I am surprised (and appalled) by the public debate. What good does it do to make these mean and vitriolic comments. It's done already.

Larry King: there are more important subjects to discuss on your show. Let's face it, you used the octuplets to increase your viewing audience.


Barb   February 2nd, 2009 10:28 pm ET

Outraged in California

RE: BLAGOJEVICH

WHY IS LARRY KING HAVING HIM ON AGAIN?
He just had him on last week. why is he subjecting his audience to this chia pet again???? I will not watch one more minute of this egotistical man. He talks only of himself and is one of the worse governors ever...


Claudia DeSantis   February 2nd, 2009 10:30 pm ET

Outraged in California,

We have a great point. Can you picture the mass of waste that will be produced just form her 14 children's diapers!!! At least we cannot say that she is an unproductive citizen. The trees that will be cut to produce the diapers, wipes and paper towels, and the oceans that will be polluted with the waste are none of our business according to some! It is a woman's "reproduction rights." As a woman and mother of two, I give up such useless right.


Susan   February 2nd, 2009 10:33 pm ET

Hey Outraged,
Has it been said that your tax dollars are paying for it? And, if it is your tax dollars being used that has you upset, then why not ban births that occur every day. Whether a singleton, twins or more, there is always a chance your tax dollars will be put to use. I would point out though that if this woman can afford IVF seven times, she must be ok. Tax dollars don't pay for IVF. Didn't the grandfather say they had plenty of money?
Susan


gerry from vt   February 2nd, 2009 10:33 pm ET

how much is Invitro ? $10,000 every time a couple tries ? she has no spouse..the DR should have said, "NO" ....did he do it "no chg?"....


Becky   February 2nd, 2009 10:42 pm ET

Sorry, I need to correct...14 children. Pardon me. Who are the nuts that are so proud of this questionable accomplishment?


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 10:47 pm ET

Susan...i agree with you our tax dollars will be put to use somehow..as for the grandfather saying they had "plenty" of money..well the house she's living in is far from elaborate (shown on the news) and is not indicative of someone with 'plenty" of money. i believe her IVF was paid for with a lawsuit she won..money that probably could've went towards some of the other childrens college. as such, at the end of the day, it's people like you and me that ultimately end up paying for her childrens care


Susan   February 2nd, 2009 10:48 pm ET

I'm amazed at the outrage and opinions. Agree with it or not, it is done. I guess what surprises me is the automatic assumption that she is on welfare and tax dollars will be supporting these children.

And, whether you like it or not, there are a lot of families that want more than 2 or 3 kids. In this case, the 'family unit' seems to be the mother and her parents. So what? Grandparents have helped raise kids for generations. From what I can tell in the snippets of interviews with the grandfater that have been shown, the family seems to be well off.

She didn't get pregnant planning to have octuplets. As far as whoever it was that commented that physicians, not God gave these children life, I do have a question. If 8 embryos were implanted and the doctors were able to give them all life, why don't they do it more often? There are so many women struggling with infertility, it seems that if the doctors could give life that infertility wouldn't be such a heartbreaking experience so many have to go through. (even after numerous tries, a lot of women still end up childless)

Until this woman applies for welfare, why not stay out of her life? The public has not even seen this woman! How dare we all sit here and judge her?


Susan   February 2nd, 2009 10:49 pm ET

Jackie,
What lawsuit? Haven't heard that one.


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 10:55 pm ET

they probably were well off since they recently filed for bankruptcy (or plan to file) and for whatever reason are unable to pay their debts at this juncture. maybe it's not really our business, but it's become public and like kate gosselins producer tells her, "people wanna know."


jackie   February 2nd, 2009 10:57 pm ET

her mother reported that she funded her IVF treatments from a settlement she received from a law suit


luz alvarez   February 2nd, 2009 11:15 pm ET

who is going to pay the hospital bill? grandparents? or us tax PAYERS?


Burke S Cowart   February 3rd, 2009 12:11 am ET

This whole situation only serves to further convince me that parenthood should be a licensed affair, there should be a test and a waiting period.


Noel   February 3rd, 2009 12:25 am ET

I believe that Nadya Suleman was fixated on the story of Jon & Kate Gosselin and their fame that has come from their show and book. I do not believe that her intentions are that of love. I am a fan of "Jon & Kate Plus Eight". In fact I am currently reading Kate's book "Multiple Blessings". They are truly wonderful parents full of love.


Victoria N   February 3rd, 2009 12:28 am ET

I really question the ethics of a doctor who would implant this many embryos, knowing the risk factors for the women and the children.
But what amazes me is that she has had ALL her children by invitro fertilization! This procedures costs thousands and thousands of dollars and she is a single mom, living with her parents? Who paid for or is paying for all this incredibly expensive medical work? Also, how old is this woman.
I also question the mom's capability to logically reason these things through. I cannot fathom that a reasonable person would not comprehend the tremendous financial, physical and emotional burden there is to have so many children and (it appears) no means of financial support for this giant family.
So far, it seems that the burden has been on her parents.


B. K.   February 3rd, 2009 12:29 am ET

Larry!
What is wrong with everybody and the media, come on leave the poor lady alone! If she wants to have 100 babies that's her business and not America's. Last I heard America was still a free country and if this woman wants 14 children or 140 she can have them.
Amazing how american's and the media worry about one woman who has 14 children but what about the millions of American's who have children who are on welfare for 20 years or more. I know such a person Larry. She has 7 children all together and 4 of them were taken away from her one of her children was awarded to me because I am the natural father of just that one. The other 3 are now living in Virgina. And the story goes on and on.
And just in case anyone wants to know I am American too born and raised in the U. S. A.


Lori   February 3rd, 2009 12:35 am ET

I agree with the guests comments about whether or not the public has the right to judge how many children are acceptable...it is a private matter. However, it seems there is an elephant in the room that no one addressed....who pays for the mother's and the children's medical care; current and on-going expenses? This is a public matter because it will be the public that foots the bill.


Dan   February 3rd, 2009 12:36 am ET

What this woman has done is total immoral to all of her children (newborns & existing) and a burden on society. The doctor who performed the in vitro fertilization acted unethically and should be disciplined for implanting 8 fertilized eggs.

The difference between her and Kate Gosselin is that Kate and her husband had jobs and could support themselves. This woman is without a job, without a male counterpart and apparently only has her house because her parents bought it for her (right before they declared bankruptcy). As such she has acted totally irresponsibly and as such any public assistance should come from the doctor who performed the in vitro (why should we pay for the stupidity of others). Maybe we can put her on a boat to Cuba!


Alicha   February 3rd, 2009 12:37 am ET

Iam a woman who would love to have a child but have been unable to become pregnant. My fertility doctor highly encouraged me to try IVF. I refused because it is costly and comes with a possible side effect of having more then one child. One child requires so much attention it should be a crime to have so many at once. Although my heart wants a child so bad i know that i could only afford one. I have worked with child serves and have witnessed first hand how many parents should have never been parents and i agree with Burke s Cowart there should be mandatory classes, licensing and investigating before a couple can conceive.


kathy   February 3rd, 2009 12:40 am ET

yes, it is her choice to have so many children. one of my questions is, will they continue to be her responsibility, or will there be tax payer supported services such as welfare, food stamps, etc. required to sustain 14 children? I cannot imagine how people can afford even two children right now, and she has 14??

my mother was the baby of 15; she was born in 1929 when families expected several children to die in childhood, and three did die. she was 6 years old when her father died leaving my grandma alone. all of the kids, my aunts and uncles and my mom, suffered some kind of emotional problems, including alcoholism.


monique rawlins   February 3rd, 2009 12:41 am ET

as a california tax payer, who is receiving an IOU from teh Statein lieu of my $1200 tax refund, will some alert reporter please ask the Kaiser Doctor or those apologists, who is paying for all this treatment, gathering teams of octors, births?
This is an obscene travesty by a gold digging woman who intends to cash in on the 8 kids for a reality show, I am dropping my kaiser coverage ASAP for I know they will have to raise premiums


Susan Warren   February 3rd, 2009 12:43 am ET

Larry, I found it very troublesome that neither you nor any of your experts on the panel addressed the important issue of who is going to pay for the hospital bills and her selfish decision to have children she cannot afford. WE are the ones who will be paying for these children and for this "woman's choice", as one of your experts stated. Another expert stated that "it's not our business". Well, I'm a woman, and it's not my choice to pay for her 14 kids. It should not be our business, but she has made it so. I would be more than happy to help families out when needed, if I am financially able to do so, but this should be my choice, not hers.


paul   February 3rd, 2009 12:57 am ET

i agree with those that are concerned for us having to pay for these children and i promise you doubters, we will pay for these children. I don't know if Bill Gates could afford 14 children at such a young age. oh, and did anyone mention college or future medical bills? that's a lot of shots in the future. i also agree with those who say "as long as they can afford it" you should be able to do what you want. But, i think this is the time to bring up the tax deductions for children. I have never understood why the day you put another burden on the public tax system you get to pay less taxes.


Mike P   February 3rd, 2009 1:02 am ET

Hey B.K.

Check this out, if it's my tax dollars that are raising these kids, it is my business. This lady already has 6 kids, she has no husband/boyfriend for support, she has no job, and she has no house because she lives with her mom. Damn right it's my business. It's people like her that cuase the cost of living for the rest of us to go up. And just so you know, CA is getting ready to go belly up what with their 60 billion dollar deficite. And it's people like you that ruin it for the rest of us, like "oh yeah, have a hundred kids, no problem, the taxpayers will pay for it, whatever a taxpayer is". WAKE UP!


Ammon Dennis   February 3rd, 2009 1:38 am ET

This is the height of selfishness; similar to a home loan, it is time we require a lengthy application process for the parent(s) desirous of this many children in today's world, either all-at-once or separately.
They should prove themselves socially, logistically, financially, emotionally and–most importantly–motivationally ("Why?!" in the first place) fit to have this amount of children.
This may sound like untenable interference in private lives, but the negative effects of multiple children on modern society is too great to ignore. Mothers by-and-large give birth to one child at a time, for a limited amount of years. There is a reason for that! Eight children at once means not only more mouths to feed, but–ominously–more consumers, polluters, carbon footprints, stress on human and natural infrastructures. Indeed, the pathological interruption to, inflation of and disregard for the workings and rhythms of our given reproductive systems should be reason enough to engender suspicion of this mother's motives. If nature had intended a woman (and her pocketbook, our tax dollars, the local hospital, the babies' health, etc.) to have 8 children at once, 40+ birthing personnel would not be needed to help her do so.
Above all, I just feel such excess is questionable at best, that this is a bizarre addition to the burden of overpopulation. Such selfishness-cloaked-in-motherhood should be scrutinized by our society. So, I propose we make such potential parents apply to have this many children. In applying, they must be made fully aware of the cost to our society, their potential children's health, the economy, the U.S. health care system, personal finances, etc.
Above all, though, these parents should be asked: Why do you think you would want–and could successfully raise–eight children?


TOKOVON   February 3rd, 2009 1:50 am ET

Gretta said the her mother did not want her to do this, said she already had to many at home and so get this shes said SHES ON HER OWN.


Lela   February 3rd, 2009 3:04 am ET

I find the media scrutiny of the octuplets mom incredibly sexist. Would questions about her income, how many children and all negatives comments be the same if she were not a single parent who has chosen to have children? Nothing quite like this has been asked of the Gosselin's (John & Kate plus 8) or Duggar's (17 Kids and counting). Leave this woman alone! Its not our business who, how or why she chose to have children, especially in a world where unwanted babies are tossed away like garbage. If there is love in her heart to care for the children, why take that away? Wake up people, there are more single parent than two parent homes...women can do it all! I wish this family all the best.


sailormansea   February 3rd, 2009 3:24 am ET

Nadya Suleman the proud mother of Octuplets from Whittier, California. Nadya is from Iraq and soon her father will be returning there for work as a truck driver. Nadya holds a BS degree in Child and Adolescent Behavior from the U of California. She is jobless, single, but mother of 6 children all of whom are very young. The first 6 children were made possible by the same artificial process which is a complex combo of vitro fertilization, embryonic implants, and cryogenic sperm induction. The embryos were also frozen. Science Fiction you say? Not anymore says modern science. All implanted frozen embyos survived which yielded the octuplets. It was textbook. Medical history for sure! That is the world of Science. Let us journey now into the real world. No job, no money, no husband, and yes living with her Mommy. Wow! Small meager home and not suitable for the invasion of the army of baby dolls that will soon be returning to reality. Can you picture this? It reminds me of the lady who lives in the mobile home in Texas with 300 cats. I love kids and cats too but this is insanity. The father ran back to Iraq muttering something about missing the peace and quiet. Somehow he makes sense to me now!


Daniel...... In Toronto, Canada   February 3rd, 2009 3:31 am ET

Great show again about the eight (8) babies but the one thing I did not hear is someone say the the children will need lots of "LOVE", I wish them all the best but think it's too much, God Bless........

Daniel ..................... Toronto, Canada


sailormansea   February 3rd, 2009 3:45 am ET

I recommend that all of you good people out there in CNN-LAND to do your research on a subject before you presume anything thus leading you to comment on a matter uninformed. I have done the research and now I read some half baked comments from half baked folks. Don't assume anything! You are on the internet aren't you! Look up some articles from different sources and read them entirely. Ingest then digest as I say. Now you are ready to comment with knowledge which can not be substituted by emotion or political viewpoint. People out there blindly saying that what Nadya Suleman, whom is the mother of the octuplets did was right is absolutely wrong. Her own mother whom has been taking care of Nadya's prior 6 children whom are all very young and the proceeds of the same artificial insemination, embryonic implant, and cryogenic sperm induction as these octuplets. Without the drugs and procedures administered, this woman was unable to bear children naturally and maybe that is how it should of been kept. Her parents have split over this, her mom is at her breaking point but Nadya doesn't care. Does that sound right or even normal to you? Jobless, Bankrupt, and single. She can't even afford to fart!


Delphine   February 3rd, 2009 4:43 am ET

Well, as long as they are babies and everyone think they are cute, there is no problem.But people forget these kids are gonna grow up, yep just like other children do...and i am sorry for their mother but kids need space for their own, clothes on their back and regular pedeatrician visits...to name a few things.So it seems logic to me that people out there ask themselves how on earth these parents can afford that.

To take a lot of children, just if they are puppies is simply irrisponsible and immature, sure, at the end of the road, if the parents don't know what to do annymore, everyone ends up paying for these kids.


Susan   February 3rd, 2009 10:11 am ET

If folks are outraged about this one woman, then where is the outrage about a man who fathers countless children in low income circumstances and takes no responsibility for them whatsoever? Our tax dollars pay for these children too. I have come across countless women living in the projects with multiple children, all by different fathers. These children grow up believing this is the norm, and repeat the process over and over. Come on folks, lighten up on this one lady, there are much bigger social issues out there.


REBECCA   February 3rd, 2009 12:57 pm ET

GOD had nothing to do with this!! Her Free Will did! If she could count she would notice a human female has two breasts.....not EIGHT like the dogs, etc.! ..
If you want eight kids... have them one at a time like my G.G.G. Grandmother did.. She had 10 (no birth control in those days), and only four survived past the age of nine. Have as many as you want woman...but don't stick your hand in my pocket!.. May you be in your utter joy trying to manage 14 children. ..The doctor should be charged with unethical and dangerous actions. You ain't no "Lady"...Sis! Good luck!


Lela   February 3rd, 2009 4:28 pm ET

People, research manics, judgmental folks...now if we the people control how many children a person has, then why not pick and choose who has children? Why not stop in vitro completely, then all the childless couples who want children will go through an indescrible screening process? Okay, why have adoption? Let the children be done away with like unwanted animals at animal shelters? Why have sperm banks for women who want children? Why let gays and lesbians have children? Why let parents of people adopt children of different races? Every one of you talking about "doing the research," "doctors charged with unethical and dangerous actions," "oh, how selfish this woman is," "if its my tax dollars," "the mass of waste." People your tax dollars are being used to bail out the economy! The mass of waste? Seriously?! You really went off the chart with that one! Doctors being charged, well those very same doctors are in place to help anyone in need of help! She's selfish? Carrying that many babies is the most selfless act known to mankind! People get out of this family's business! No one knows the real story, sorry research manic. What would you like for her to do, kill the babies? Leave them in foster care? If she in not abusing all her children more power to her! GET OUT OF OTHERS BUSINESS, FIX YOUR OWN LIVES! Out of all the hurtful, ridiculous comments made, other than research sailor – "female has two breast, not eight like a dogs" is horrible! Shame on you ALL


mary   February 3rd, 2009 5:36 pm ET

Well Lela since you think she such an upstanding person, I assume you would be willing to help her support all those kids. She doesn't work, there is no father, she lives with mommy who is irresponsible with money to the point that she was thousands in debt until she filed bankruptcy. I love animals but I stopped at four not because of cost, because you cannot give each one the love they deserve if you have too many–four is a struggle. As a mother, I tend to believe that dogs survive better with less love than kids do. I think this is a social disaster waiting to happen. Another thing that irritates me is that this woman will more than likely receive welfare because she chose to be irresponsible and my tax dollars will help pay for that. I, on the other hand, am a very reponsible person, have worked for over 25 years and yet if for some unforseen reason I were to need welfare–I couldn't get it unless I got rid of everything I have worked for. It's just too bad our society rewards people for being irresponsible and punishes the ones who choose to do the right thing.


Susan   February 3rd, 2009 8:37 pm ET

Hey sailormansea,

I really didn't need the lesson in reproduction and all of the modern ways it can be accomplished. Being a nurse, I am well acquainted with how it is done. I was NOT talking about this sperm donor. Perhaps I was not clear, let me try again. I am talking about the men who have sex (the old fashioned way) with a woman and father a child. Then they move on to another woman and father another child, and so on and so on.

And, fyi, a woman is not asked for her income or her home situation. Also, it is not impotence that prevents a man's sperm from impregnating his wife. Impotence is erectile dysfunction. A man can either be sterile and not produce sperm, or his sperm can just have a slower motility.

While we are explaining things to you, invitro is a little more complicated that just putting in a man's sperm, but we won't go there.

Once again, in your comment, we have someone jumping on someone else simply because they did not thoroughly read the comment or did not understand what the person was saying. Instead you responded with way to much information on the reproductive process.

As far as the financial facts you state, a doctor would not be privy to that information prior to implanting embryos. (that were hers by the way) A physcian can advise, but they cannot dictate.


Susan   February 3rd, 2009 8:40 pm ET

Well said, Lela.


Joyce   February 3rd, 2009 8:45 pm ET

Who's going to monetarily support this mother and her 14 children? Us taxpayers? Who's going to pay all the medical costs? Us insurance holders? Why should we? Hey, if her family and friends pay for all of the expenses to raise these kids and foot the medical bills; than I have no problem with her irresponsible idea to have and raise theses kids as an unemployed, single mother. But leave society out of bearing the costs of her erratic behavior. This woman has made her own bed, and now she needs to lay in it! If this woman is toying with the idea of using these children to sell her story to the supermarket tabloids, magazines, newspapers, and movie producers to make a profit, SHAME ON HER! That would be outrageous and absolutely despicable.


Susan   February 3rd, 2009 9:04 pm ET

What is wrong from her selling her story? The media sure has had a field day judging her since these babies were born. All of the slander and accusations that have been aimed at this woman? Celebrities sell pictures of their babies all the time. Why is this woman getting money for her story any different than Jon & Kate? Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but they are making money off of their kids and their story as well. John and Kate have turned their home into a reality show for money.


Mike P   February 3rd, 2009 9:09 pm ET

Jon and Kate, even if they could afford that many kids, have undeniably made a specticale of themselves and their kids. I don’t watch the show, but from what I have read here, the money has gone to their heads. Watching somebody get so much attention and financial security from having so many kids, it tells people that they can do the same thing, and hope for the same result. My example is this lady from CA. Now this jobless, homeless ( still lives w/ mom ) woman who does’nt even have a partner in all this (husband/boyfriend ) is obviously counting on a book/movie deal. It’s just not right OK people.


Renee Hathorn   February 3rd, 2009 10:08 pm ET

The woman who gave birth evidently has never worked for a living. If she had she would know how costly it is to raise a family these days with a married couple both working, much less living off of donations or the bankrupt government! This is absolutely out of the realms of common sense! If it's true that she is asking Oprah for money or selling her story to the press to profit from this, something has gone haywire in her mind & in our country if we give in to this. Yes, she needs help now, & yes, this is a needy family, & yes, she is crazy! I'm sorry, but it's not fair for the rest of us to work all our lives just to support our families & pay for insurance for when we or they need help, but give me a break! YES! GIVE ME A BREAK! THE TAXPAYERS! GIVE US WHO PAY BIG TAXES A BREAK, NOT THE ONES WHO PULL STUNTS LIKE THIS!!! THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING GOD INTENDED....NOT A NATURAL THING! AM I THE ONLY WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS STORY? BUT WHEN IT ALL COMES DOWN TO IT, WE WILL BE THE ONES LOSING OUR HOME, & DIGGING A DITCH FOR FOOD. THE WOMAN WITH ALL THE BABIES WILL STILL GET FREEBIES! GOD HELP US ALL!!!


Susan   February 3rd, 2009 11:12 pm ET

Mike,

I didn't miss your entry, I just had a different opinion. Look, personally I don't agree with what she did either, I just don't think it is my place to judge her. I've never been in her shoes so to speak. You, or anyone posting here could probably find something in my life that you disagree with too. People are diverse and have different belief systems. Since this octuplet story broke, the "facts" have been varied according to where you read it or which news station you watch. I just don't feel it is my place to judge her, that's all. Maybe she is an idiot. This is America, where our right to be an idiot is part of our freedom. People make stupid decisions all the time unfortunately, they just don't get the media coverage this woman has.


Lela   February 4th, 2009 12:56 am ET

I don't know if this woman is an upstanding individual, because I don't know her, no one on this blog does. No one knows her story and frankly it is none of our business! With the economy the way it is and everybody talking about the use of their tax dollars...be careful what you say about others, you might be in need of financial support to care for our own children! Getting your blood pressure up about somebody else! Looking into their public records, what if it was your public records being looked at?! Having assumptions made about your life! Thee without sin cast the first stone...


Susan   February 4th, 2009 8:38 am ET

Again, well said Lela. And, Mark, even though I don't agree with everything you said, I do respect your views and thank you for trying to maintain an intelligent conversation here.

I am not defending her choices, just that as a free American she has the right to make them. Unfortunately, people have children all the time who cannot afford them and who are in no way emotionally prepared to deal with them.

Mike, how about reading about blog etiquette? Name calling is not called for. People can have different opinions. Your opinion is not the gospel, though I do respect it.


Mike P   February 4th, 2009 4:47 pm ET

Yeah you guys, Lela, my bad. I was out of line and I'm sorry.

The fact of the matter is that people like this woman ruin everything we stand for and believe in, everything we count on as citizens of this great nation. Because of people like her the cost of living goes up for me, If I had kids the school I was planning on sending them to is shuting down, if me or my kids gets sick the hospital that I would take them to is closed. And to top it all off, the people of CA are going to be getting IOU's for a tax return.

I've spent most of my life in southern CA and I have witnessed first hand this atrocity of sorts. Mexican illegals cross the border only to give birth, that then allows the mother to stay as a caretaker for her "legal" child. And since they realize the more babies you have, the bigger the check from Uncle Sam. Well, you see where i'm going with this? To turn a blind eye and say it's none of our business is appaling.

Again, I'm sorry.


Lela   February 4th, 2009 5:53 pm ET

My goodness! A little discrimination turns into BIG discrimination. The hatred shown towards this woman immediately made me think of comments like "those people," "no, i'm not prejudice, I have friend of all races," etc.

Everyone who has thrown stones at this woman without knowing anything other than speculation and quotes (which may have been taken out of context), forming lynch mob is frightening!

This woman will not make anyone lose their home! She is solely not responsible for schools closing! Has she been accused of abusing her 6 children? People may not agree with HER choices, but they are her choices. I refuse to make negative comments about this woman, because its her life and trying to make it about me (i.e., my tax dollars being used) would be presumptious. And that's appalling.


mary   February 4th, 2009 8:03 pm ET

Lela, part of my point was that having worked very hard for everything I have and apparently to support a number of other who CHOOSE not to work and live off of our tax payers dollars, should I get into a situation whre I did need help, I couldn't get it unless I got rid of everything I own. I know a guy this happened to, and just to get any kind of assistance, they told him he would fare better if he got a divorce.

So yes I am judgemental. I'm tired of trying to do the right thing so I can pay for those who Choose to take the easy way out and suck up our tax dollars.


Mark   February 4th, 2009 8:15 pm ET

Wow, looks like everything to be said has been said...so in conclusion, there appear to be two views which will just have to agree to disagree; there's a group of us fixated on the affect that "people like her" have on the society as a whole, and the other group is standing up for the right of an individual to live freely under the law.

Both sides have valid points. I think if there are two things to take out of this conversation they are as follows: we should all appreciate our right to have a discussion like this, and to do our best to understand teh other side of the story (understanding makes it easier to create a convincing argument.) Also, we should all take a look at our own lives and consider the effects of our actions on a global scale. Everything we say and do has an effect long after we say or do them. Let's all be more cognizant for our actions.


Susan   February 4th, 2009 9:22 pm ET

Mike P., apology accepted, and thank you for explaining your views. I understand them, really I do. And Mark, you summed it all up very well. We all come from different life experiences that shape our views on issues. I agree we should appreciate our freedom to discuss things, as well as look at our own actions as to how they effect things on a global scale.

Lela talks about little discrimination turning into big discrimination. I think that was my issue with this story too. Being from the south, I've seen how quickly the mob mentailty can form, and try to avoid it. I for one would like to hear from this woman, not snippets of interviews with her parents that may or may not be taken out of context.

Thanks to all for a lively discussion!


Renee H.   February 5th, 2009 1:50 pm ET

Yes, Mary, Mark, Mike, Lela, & Susan, thank God we live in America where our opinions can still be voiced without fear of danger, however, as one of you said we can all agree to disagree. She laid herself wide open for people like us to give our opinion. Not unlike politicians, movie stars, etc., when we place ourselves in the public eye we are left wide open for speculation by others. Yes, we still live in a society where we can make our own choices no matter how tragic they may be, but some of us are simply stating that she has placed a burden on herself that will more than likely come back to haunt us all, via taxes, etc. I hate to refer to any children as burdens, and I don't mean it as such, but it will require much love, money, discipline, & everything else that goes along with being a parent these days & God be with her. She will need all the help she can get. Back in the day, we had no choice other than abstaining as to how many children we had. It was a different day back then. We were dirt poor farmers who grew what we ate & worked hard every single day to eat, pay for the basic necessities, etc. We didn't even have a phone because it was not something we had to have. There were 7 children in this family, but today, most wouldn't know how to act without a cell phone, satellite tv, & all the other luxuries that go with it and I do mean luxuries. My life is different today. I am married to a dentist who pays an arm and a leg in taxes. We were in Hurricane Katrina & during that time we lived much like I was raised back in the day, so when I say she has done this to herself & plans to live off of the government, I know what I am talking about. We never once thought of having anyone else paying our bills or getting a free check. We did without a lot of things that made us better people & appreciative of every little thing. In the best of circumstances, it would be hard to raise 14 children. I mean no harm in the things I have said, but feel she is taking advantage or is just a very immature person who maybe should have lived on her own for a while before she made the trip to the clinic for more invitro. Oprah has worked hard for her money too & why would she even embarras herself by asking her for money? Makes no sense unless she is just way too young to do this in the first place. I wish her well and more than anything the children. Please respond. Renee H.


Renee H.   February 5th, 2009 1:54 pm ET

As for discrimination, I still do not know the race of this person & don't see that has anything to do with anything. Please don't think my comments are in any way racial. Every race on the face of the earth makes mistakes. My comments were not based on race at all. Just wanted to clear that up. It never dawned on me that race would factor in this problem at all, but I guess I was wrong.


Susan   February 5th, 2009 5:26 pm ET

Hey Renee.

You make some good points as well. As far as discrimination, I for one wasn't referring to race. There are a lot of ways we discriminate, not just racially. (I pray were are beyond racism!)

Hearing you describe growing up, reminds me of stories my mother tells, and to an extent the way I grew up as well. I was born in 1961. I didn't always have the name brand clothes or the latest, newest best of the toys, but I learned that you don't always get what you want and that it really is OK to work for what you want and that immediate gratification is not mandatory.

Maybe that is part of the issue here. Somehow we've grown to think that our children are entitled to the cell phone, the satellite TV, the Ipod, etc. I worked my way through college and got student loans and did just fine. I appreciated my college education more, because it was something I worked for and earned, not simply a gift that was owed to me.

I think today, large families can do well, they just live differently than families with less children. I have a friend with 7 children, and it is amazing to see her family in action. They help each other out and they know that the world doesn't revolve around them.


elizabeth brooks   February 5th, 2009 6:10 pm ET

I also live in the state of California. I have mixed feeling about this whole thing. Yes this is the US and yes you do have rights to more or less do as you will..without breaking the law. So if you have 14 kids pretty much that is your business.

That being said these were not children conceived of a loving relationship. So we have a single mom with no apparent means of supporting 14 children without help from the government or endorsements and gifts from wherever.

If this is not the case then I say go for it have 20 kids...just do not ask me to subsidise you.

I was laid off my job of nine years. Now our governor is talking about reducing unemployment benefits. It probably does not come out of the same account, but my gut feeling is we should not have to pay for somebody like this.

Those people responding from other states can we send her and the kids to you. Any company thinking of endorsements forget it you will be encouraging someone else to be irresponsible. If all of you disagree with me then let us agree if she can take care of them fine...let her do it. Just let her take care of them on her own..this was her decision so let her have at it.

However we are the US some body will feel sorry for her and help her out...gee I worked for 40 years can't pay my rent next month any volunteers to help me out?


Lela   February 5th, 2009 6:51 pm ET

Susan, YES!!! I come from a generation of large families in the south. We simply didn't have what others had. There was a lot of love! Mother worked at a diner sun up until sun down, we didn't have a car and walked everywhere. Dad wasn't around, HIS choice. Our clothes were handed down, but clean. We had washed our clothes, towels, sheets and hung them on the line with clothes pins. We sewed holes in clothes and socks. Christmas presents were handmade items. Birthday cakes were hand made. Lunches were mustard sandwiches from homemade bread. We rarely had fast food, burgers and french fries were made at home. We didn't have a telephone, used pay phones in emergencies. The same continued when we moved to California. Private schools were for "rich people," public schools all the way. College was loans all the way.

This is why I find it very sexist reading comments about how "irresponsible," "my tax dollars," "looking into public records," so mean! No one felt sorry and helped us out, we made due with what we had. Ladies, we hand made "female products' and I'm only 40 years old!! Ths is why I cannot talk about this woman.


Susan   February 6th, 2009 10:23 am ET

Lela, I agree. Large families may not have every gadget and piece of technology for each child, but they do generally have the one thing that all children thrive on, and that is love. There is a bonding between siblings that teaches children how to have relationships as they grow up.

I too am bothered by the comments that she is single. So? Single moms raise kids, even large families alone all the time. From what I've read this morning now that she has gone public, in addition to being a good mother to her six children, she is also about to complete her master's degree in childhood and adolescent studies. She doesn't work because of an on the job injury, which will probably predjudice even more people against her.

If she had a husband, while he might provide some monetary aid, he would be working, so I'm not sure how much physical assistance he would be in caring for the children. Single women use modern technology to have children all the time now. Any one of them is subject to having multiples. Husbands can leave, and husbands can die. Simply having one at the birth doesn't ensure they will be there to raise them, as you well know.


Susan   February 6th, 2009 12:24 pm ET

Elizabeth,

I am sorry about your job and unfortunately what you are going through is the experience of way too many Americans, and only promises to get worse.

Maybe the economy is the reason for all of the uproar about this woman.

I've been pondering your comment about other states taking her. I remembered how several years ago, our community had sextuplets born. They had two parents, but of course the mother couldn't work and the father only had the salary of a school teacher. They had one other child as well. They were only trying to have one more, and like John and Kate, that one turned into 6. I remember joy at their birth and huge community support. Ladies were lining up to help care for the infants. Clothes were donated. Money was donated. Their church family went above and beyond to help them out, emotionally, physically and yes, financially too.

My first reaction when I heard about the octuplets was "wow, what a miracle!" I guess I'd say, sure, send them to the south. There are still enough of the old fashioned values where people come together to solve a problem rather than judge it. Maybe it is our strong ties to a church community, I don't know. But, you do make me think. I could be wrong, but I think in the south, a majority of people (by no means all) would see their birth as a blessing. We had triplets at our church years ago. The family was very active. All they had to do was pull in the parking lot and people were more than willing to play with and help with the children.

I hope this woman does have local community and/or church support.


elizabeth brooks   February 6th, 2009 12:38 pm ET

I would absolutely agree with everthing you said except for the fact this lady already had six children and this was a calculated choice on her part. This procedure is usually performed on women who cannot have children and are truly desperate....and for all of them I wish them well. This lady has an unhealthy obcession and now she apparently is in school ( on tax payer or grant dollars) she intends to go on with school so the state will wind up subsidizing her kids. She wants to be a counselor...heaven help us. If her church wants to give her everything I say yeah!...I just do not want t pay fot this in anyway. I feel sorry that I am not in anyway happy for her. Also most reputable clinics would have done this many implants.


K.H. McIntosh   February 10th, 2009 6:57 am ET

VERY IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!!! This lady said she always wanted to be a mother.................well she was that six times over already. I could care less how many children any responsible person has as long as I am not financing the deal with my tax dollars. She is a single parent with six children already ages 2-7 and currently living at home with her parents and now she adds eights premies to the equation, not to mention unemployed as well. Being the father of 1 premie I know the stresses and struggles that go along with taking care of 1 premie. Yet this woman now has 14 children and her short term future plans are to go to school.....................................Are you serious. She can do what she wants as long as it does not involve taxpayer money and by the sounds of it she will be in the taxpayers pockets for at least another 18 years.............


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