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March 30, 2010

TONIGHT ON LARRY KING LIVE!

Posted: 07:00 PM ET

The Catholic Church has been rocked by a sexual abuse scandal!

Tonight several victims reveal their childhood nightmare of a  priest who may have molested up to 200 boys!  What happened to them decades ago? And what do they think of the Vatican’s response?

Plus!

Singer Sinead O’Conner’s very personal reasons for getting involved.

And!

Then, was a Massachusetts teen bullied to death? Nine teens have been charged in the case. Why didn’t anyone stop it?

What do YOU think about the Pope’s handling of the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandals?

Filed under: Larry King Live


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A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 7:23 pm ET

Just when you thought the Pope couldn't slink any lower!

In court documents this Tuesday, the Pope's attorneys are filing a defense in their callous attempt to prevent Pope Ratz from being questioned under oath what he knew about serial pedophile clerics who raped and sodomized hundreds of children in the care of the church.

Pope Ratz's defense team has issued three elements of defense in a ongoing child rape case in Kentucky in Pope Ratz's attempts to avoid being questioned under oath about what he knew and what he did about serial child pedophiles in the Vatican and in parishes around the world.

1) Claiming Pope Ratz is immune from criminal charges as head of state, although that certainly didn't protect Manual Noriega former president of Panama on far lesser crimes.

2) The ridiculous claim that Pope Ratz is not the boss of those serial pedophile clerics and clerics of the church are not employees of the Vatican. This is apparently a clear attempt to dodge monetary settlements against Pope Ratz and the Vatican itself.

3) A claim attempting to dispute that a 1962 Vatican document obtained by a Oregon attorney representing hundreds of children raped in Oregon by Vatican clergy which appears to clearly describe the direct role of the Vatican knowing and moving pedophiles to other unsuspecting parishes where the pedophiles committed multiple new cases of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse on new child victims.

Three men claiming they were abused by priests brought the suit against the Holy See in 2004, accusing Rome of negligence in failing to alert police or the public about priests who molested children in Kentucky.

The preview of the legal defense, provided to the AP by a person familiar with the case, was submitted last month in the U.S. District Court in Louisville. Vatican officials declined to comment.

The case is significant because it's the first among a handful of cases targeting Rome in the United States to reach the stage of determining whether the victims actually have a claim against the Vatican itself.

Previous cases attempting to implicate the Vatican have failed or are pending at more preliminary stages.

In the Kentucky suit, the men argued that U.S. diocesan bishops were employees of the Holy See, and that Rome was therefore responsible for their alleged wrongdoing in failing to report abuse.

They charged that a 1962 Vatican document mandated that bishops not report sex abuse cases to police. The Vatican has argued that there is nothing in the document that precluded bishops from reporting pedophiles to police.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 7:24 pm ET

Aiding and abiding a serial child sex offender to shield them from the police, US Courts and MOVE them to another location where the serial child sex offender went on to rape, sodomize and sexually abuse hundreds of more innocent unsuspecting child victims would normally be a LIFE IN PRISON offense.

Pope Ratz is not above the laws in America, UK, Europe nor anywhere else that he appears to have shielded clerics that have been later found by US, UK and European Courts to have been serial pedophiles, and moved those horrific criminals to new parishes upon unsuspecting children who were themselves RAPED and SODOMIZED!

Pope Ratz should resign.

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages.

Courts around the world should hold Pope Ratz and the Vatican responsible for their actions in aiding and abiding these serial criminals whose aid and support DIRECTLY led to the continued RAPE and SODOMY of new child victims in care of the church.


LacrosseMom   March 30th, 2010 7:34 pm ET

Well said........ A. Smith! Unfortunately, the pope wont resign, and there are plenty of conservative Catholics who support the man. The pedophile priests scandal is hurting the church but nothing will change, until those of us, in the pews hit the hierarchy where it hurts...... money! The hierarchy will continue to hide its secrets. This is not just about the U.S., Ireland or Germany, we are an international church and the crisis is everywhere!

I pray that the media will hold the pope's feet to the fire, and that we, Catholics, will show our outrage for once!


Dodie - Newport Beach, California   March 30th, 2010 7:58 pm ET

"Vatican denounces what it calls a smear campaign and clear effort at discrediting Pope Benedict and his closest aides" I call this the Hall of Shame!!!

With continued aberrant behavior among priests on a regular basis under the cloak and dagger of the Cardinals and now Pope; religion has always been about cover-up in order to keep followers mislead (the sheeple effect). The Vatican is an oxymoron or even better a dichotomy with one side the Mafia and the other side the Catholic Church! Both adamant of their differences; however, upon a closer look, that which professes to be unlike are really the same. Enough of their rhetoric. The church must atone for all their irresponsible behaviors. This continued predation on children MUST stop!!!

As stated in a previous blog, the psychological effects of being a boy molested by a male especially the messenger of god is like none other. When a boy is molested by a male, not only does the child experience a trauma of magnitude proportions, this experience often sets a persistence within the child leaving a residual affect of sexual identity issues and amorphous. The resounding effect. with molest between male on male, there is often touching which can excite the male child.
This tears at the very fabric that holds the child's ego and dissonant the cognitive structure of the world around him. Therefore, this child grows up to be a man and questions his own sexual preference. Some may become gay, some may end up predators... Some may commit suicide. The saddest of all, is the male who becomes married, carries on with life and hidden deep down inside him is the question of his sexual identity. The child experiences bereft of self and ego. The priest has set into motion a lamentation of each child he molests. The child is truly egodystonic in every sense of the word!

Because, Priests have the "word of god" which places them at a level compared to none other, this is truly a banality of evil act upon an innocent child. I challenge you to look ever so diligently at the underlying ordeal. Focus closely …. Focus with clarity

Silence, repression, and prevarication are used knowingly to conceal truth from the people. This has the roots of a 1,000 year old tree of shame and blame. The sexual predation and treacherous acts to children are perpetuated; generation after generation under the "word of god" only ending when society is finally forced to see the horrendous atrocities in such a way there can be.......

No denial...................
No excuses...................
No Justification .................
No rationalization!!!


IKHAN   March 30th, 2010 8:27 pm ET

Hi Larry,

The Vatican is flexing its muscles ,the victims of molestation & horrific child abuse & their families are helpless against that formidable wealth & power.

What @ A.Smith says is true but the Pope is not going to resign neither is Vatican going to be sued. Thats the way it works.


sue   March 30th, 2010 8:35 pm ET

i think these pope ,priests and all of the bishops involved in every case should be sent to prison like any other person would be who was a child molester. I think all Catholics should stand up for those who could not protect themselves against these men . If the whole hierarchy of the church would collapse and rebuild from the ground up it might save itself. The only thing that the church will understand is if everyone stops donating money and demands change !


Bridget Mary Meehan   March 30th, 2010 8:47 pm ET

Pope Benedict needs to be accountable and answer many questions such as:why were the sexual abuse cases put under pontifical secrecy? Were the victims present?
Were the accused present? If not, then how could these Vatican trials be fair or just? Why were pedophies allowed to continue their priestly ministry? Why did bishops shuffle them from place to place when they belonged in jail? Why does the institutional church get away with criminal behavior that would not be tolerated of any other religious body? How would Jesus respond to this horrific abuse of children and vunerable youth?
How come pedophiles were not excommunicated for rape and criminal behavior, but Roman Catholic Womenpriests are automatically excommunicated?
Bridget Mary Meehan
Roman Catholic Woman Bishop
Sarasota, Florida


susana presa   March 30th, 2010 8:58 pm ET

Hi Larry, from 1975 to 1977 I was abused in a catholic school in Mexico I was a little 13 year old girl and they punished me instead of him. I still hurt because of this sometimes and I think there must be a lot of victims that dont know what to do or how to get over it and we dont't know where to look for help. I live in the US and also I live horrified that the same guy now has 1000 children under his care in Mexico City, what should I do ? It will alays hurt...and they all know and don't do anything.


Kathryn   March 30th, 2010 9:01 pm ET

Am sick of all this perverted stuff in the Catholic church!

The Catholics need to go and get married and do what they were created to do WITH ADULTS and STOP taking out their frustration on young children! If one of them ever touch my child!

Why cast them out if they get married? The pope is encouraging this destructive nastiness because he refuses to change it so that men who call themselves priest should get married.

This is not christianity or salvation! It is called BON-DAGE!

Salvation frees us!

he pope am afraid is carrying out rituals but is not reading the bible. This is NOT the gospel!


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:08 pm ET

How many children committed suicide after being RAPPED and SODOMIZED by their priests?

I'm certain the extensive resources by the CNN Staff could help find out how many of the Church pedophile victims went on to commit suicide.


Frank h   March 30th, 2010 9:08 pm ET

Folks. You clearly have no idea of what you talk about. This pope has done more to clean up the mess caused by a very small number of wayward priests than anyone in the church's history. Take some time to read something other than the usual media outlets and learn the truth.


Chaney. La.   March 30th, 2010 9:08 pm ET

This situation is really disgusting, I have never really understood the Catholic doctrine, but I respect others religious beliefs, or non belief, this is not just disgusting its criminal, and should be handled as such.


Dan Lafayette,IN   March 30th, 2010 9:09 pm ET

Yes Larry the school should have suspended the bullies on their first offense and expelled on the second offense! Make it universal in all schools then the parents of these bullies might take a little time out to teach their kids to respect other people!


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:13 pm ET

Without a doubt, pending serial child sex abuse cases are going to end-up before the US Supreme Court seeking to include Pope Ratz and The Vatican among the defendants and among the US Court ordered monetary settlements.

The US Supreme Court should certainly hold Pope Ratz and The Vatican directly and monetarily liable for the horrific large scale sexual abuse cases.

Cardinal Ratz, now Pope Ratz aiding and abiding a serial child sex offender to shield them from the police, US Courts and MOVE them to another location where the serial child sex offender went on to rape, sodomize and sexually abuse hundreds of more innocent unsuspecting child victims would normally be a LIFE IN PRISON offense.

Pope Ratz is not above the laws in America, UK, Europe nor anywhere else that he appears to have shielded clerics that have been later found by US, UK and European Courts to have been serial pediphiles, and moved those horrific criminals to new parishes upon unsuspecting children who were themselves RAPED and SODOMIZED!

Pope Ratz should resign.

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages.

Courts around the world should hold Pope Ratz and the Vatican responsible for their actions in aiding and abiding these serial criminals whose aid and support DIRECTLY led to the continued RAPE and SODOMY of new child victims in care of the church.


Joseph B.   March 30th, 2010 9:17 pm ET

I would like to see a more in depth discussion of why the clergy in the Orthodox Church are married and have families. Why the Orthodox Church in America considers the Roman Catholic Church an heretical church?


Chris   March 30th, 2010 9:20 pm ET

Has anyone else noticed how whenever there is heightened tension regarding Israel and Israeli-U.S. relations this Catholic priest sex abuse sensationalism hits the news–again? And Larry King always ends up talking about it–again? Really, pay attention, I've been noticing this pattern for at least three of these news cycles and had had begun to have an inkling about it earlier which had me paying attention and making the connection. Can this be simply coincidental???


Jeannie C.   March 30th, 2010 9:21 pm ET

The Catholic church is rotten by its design and should no longer be tolerated without major reforms. Women need to be included in its restructuring or it should fade away as just another male-centered archaic, brutal and corrupt institution. For years I could no longer as a Catholic in good conscience, look towards Rome for any spiritual guidance.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:21 pm ET

Pope Ratz and The Vatican attorneys have responded by claiming these deaf children that are now adults that have rape and sodomy cases before US Courts, German Courts are not creditable witness's and doing what it can to silence these victims from making their horrific experiences from being public knowledge.

Pope Ratz and The Vatican attorneys are also claiming diplomatic immunity and Sovereign Nation immunity from the US Court cases.

However, the previous horrific Bush sr. administration set the precedence whereupon a leader of a country could be tried by US Courts and penalized by US Justice in the case of Manual Noriega. It should be noted that the charges against Cardinal Ratz and now Pope Ratz are FAR MORE SERIOUS and grave than those against Manual Noriega.


Kelly in ON   March 30th, 2010 9:22 pm ET

The Catholic religion is a JOKE. These sexual sadists hide behind their religion to molest needy children. I am SO SO SO glad that I do not hide behind this sham of a religion.


Jose Rosado   March 30th, 2010 9:24 pm ET

School violence and bullying is promoted by students taking on a BEING GOOD AT BEING BAD lifestyle. As an educator for 23 years (8 as a school counselor and 15 as a middle school assistant principal) I have intervened in many cases of bullying.


Kelly in ON   March 30th, 2010 9:26 pm ET

she is hurting


Valerie Szach   March 30th, 2010 9:30 pm ET

Don't think the Pope is doing enough-looks more like he is down playing the priest sexual abuse scandals. I suffered from sexual abuse as a child,(I'm a female) but not by a priest-I'm now in my sixties and it still haunts me to this day, so I can symphatize with those men.
I have another question-why did priests seem to only abuse men? I went to Catholic School in the fifties. The only abuse I suffered was at the hands of nuns. Many of them were physically abusive and would be arrested for assault if it happened today.


Jean   March 30th, 2010 9:31 pm ET

Larry:

It is a smear campaign against the Pope and the Catholic Church of which I am a practicing member.
To comprehend what has occurred in the Catholic Church is to revert to years ago when some of those men became priests. I have personally read that in the ancient days of Hitler and communists that young men as old as 17 years were paid to enter the priesthood so as to destroy the Catholic Church. Some of them if not all of them were homosexuals and pedophiles which the Hierarchy was not aware of, obviously. Thus this situation which has existed in the Church. and embarrassed us. Those men were not sincere priests. They entered the Church on a false pretext.
Consider that in previous years employers would employ people without performing a personal report on them. Employees were taken at face value. It is exactly what occurred in the Catholic Church. Today, the Hierarchy has realized this serious situation and has taken steps that such people do not enter the priesthood.
There are many people such as the New York Times and your viewers who are not aware of that and who will lambaste the Pope that he did nothing about it. As a practicing Catholic Christian I can assure that the Pope would not have stood idle, so to speak and do nothing.
How can people who are not employed by the Hierarchy state that the Pope did nothing? They have no idea what the Pope did and how he addressed the situation. It is unfair to judge him and slander his name. It is a smear campaign which the New York Times has waged on the Pope.
Why did the boys not run away from this situation and did something about it then? Why is it that after all those years they have come forth? Why today only? What good will it do and what satisfaction will they get from this?
The Pope is not answerable to the Media or anyone. The Pope does not work for a democracy. The government, the Media and those who speak against him are not his bosses.
This woman should be excommunicated. She is speaking and fighting against her own Church and should not be allowed in the Church since she has proved to be Its enemy. Our Lord said: "A house divided by itself cannot stand." This is this Irish woman who speaks a lot of garbage. She is not a sincere Catholic and should leave the Catholic Church. In time, God will take care of her.
Our Pope will remain as Pope. He is our Pope. We sincere Catholics love him and we know that he is not guilty of anything as the secular world and the smoke of Satan which is causing this scandal on broadcasting what which they do not know and do not comprehend. I urge them to pray to God and it may just be that God will give them enlightenment. May God who will judge all of them help them accordingly.
Jean
Toronto, Canada


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:33 pm ET

The Vatican Cardinals that voted for Cardinal Ratz to become Pope Ratz, CERTAINLY KNEW about the mass numbers of sexual abuse and cases of RAPE and SODOMY by its own clergy AND those same Cardinals CERTAINLY KNEW the Vatican had been paying hundreds of Millions of parish collected dollars to silence up those child victims and their family's

YES, those Vatican Cardinals KNEW Cardinal Ratz was smack in the middle of all of those child sex abuse crimes, shielding the priests, moving them to other unsuspecting parishes where those same priests committed further rapes and sodomy upon new victims.

The question than is WHY? Why would the Vatican Cardinals knowingly place the very worst example of a religious figurehead into the top office?

IT appears Pope Ratz was placed into the top office because if Pope Ratz attempted to curtail any illegal activity's in the Vatican's other branches such as Money Laundering, Child Slavery, Drug Smuggling et. al. they could threaten Pope Ratz with exposure so they could continue their nefarious activity's unimpeded.


Carmen Frost   March 30th, 2010 9:34 pm ET

Why is it so easy for priests to abuse children?

Because The Vatican decided to make the legal age of consent 12 years of age...

They need to raise the age of consent to 18 so that families can prosecute priests who abuse innocent children!


Carmen Frost   March 30th, 2010 9:34 pm ET

Why is it so easy for priests to abuse children?

Because The Vatican decided to make the legal age of consent 12 years of age...

They need to raise the age of consent to 18 so that families can prosecute priests who abuse their children!


Jeannie C.   March 30th, 2010 9:36 pm ET

The Pope is not answerable to the Media or anyone...???

He most certainly IS answerable to crimes against children IF he knew about them.


Ellen Rockey   March 30th, 2010 9:37 pm ET

I would really like this story read on the air.....it is not only sexual , it is physical abuse as well...my Dad was in an orphanage at 3 years old, tripped over an oil burning heater, and the nuns and priests did not let his own Mother see him for 3 months, lying about his condition of 2rd & 3rd degree burns covering his entire right arm and hand, telling his mother that he had the measles and that it was contagious. they did not get hospital or doctor care for my dad's burns, and so he did not heal, with healthy skin, and had to endure skin grafting for the next 10 years of his life. He never wore a short sleeved shirt or went swimming, in his whole life, as he was self conscious of his burned skin and deformed hand. He did not talk about anything else that happened, but I really feel that he was molested sexually as well. Look how defenseless he was! Also, both my Mom & Dad, went to Catholic schools, and the nuns were very abusive, beating their fingers with wooden rulers, if they did not answer a question in the expected way. Also batting of the ears with their hands was common. I feel the entire Catholic Church should be sent to hell, for the sins that they all have covered up and allowed, and these incidents destroyed many of these kids emotionally and physically. thank you for any help in getting the real truth out.


jack   March 30th, 2010 9:37 pm ET

Mr. Donahue, high paid Catholic mouthpiece, do you think anyone with an ounce of intelligence believes you? Everyone should walk out on the corrupt institution. It is a big sham circus, and the glory days of this evil empiire has long passed. The money- making institution has a long history of many evil events. You can't build a house on a rotten foundation.


Kelly in ON   March 30th, 2010 9:37 pm ET

Everytime you turn around another member of our greatest, holiest leaders have begged forgiveness for their sins. There is NOBODY out there to show our children what is true and honest. We are only human but most do not proclaim to be holier than thou but those who do have been found to be nothing but fakes. Do and say whatever you want to get want you want. Too many perverts in this world. They join the church and charities like big brother to molest our children. If you cannot trust your church and the groups for children, who can we possibly trust?


patti baker   March 30th, 2010 9:38 pm ET

In 1968 or 69 I was leaving my ex husband. Father Gerard Poche, St Anthony's Church in Gretna La had been my "best friend" since he had married my ex and I in 1963. At the most vulnarble time of my life, my friend, my most trusted friend came on to me, kissed me, fondled me and we had sex. I have held this anger and feeling of rape for all these years. Tonight I want to speak out and say what that man did to me and my faith in God.

Thank you
Patti Baker
Pat McGovern in 68


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 9:38 pm ET

@A. Smith, Oregon March 30th, 2010 9:08 pm ET

How many children committed suicide after being RAPPED and SODOMIZED by their priests?
---------–

More than anyone could ever imagine! Statistics show that being Molested is the top 1 – 3 of all teen suicides!


Carmen Frost   March 30th, 2010 9:40 pm ET

Interestingly, nobody mentions that the age of consent in the Vatican is 12... how convenient for the Vatican!!

If a priest were to sexually abuse a 12 year old child, it would be impossible for the child's parents to press charges, since technically the Vatican has made it OK by having the age of consent be 12.

Vatican's age of consent being 12 is a huge red flag!!!


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:41 pm ET

Cardinal Ratz CERTAINLY was aware the Vatican paid HUNDREDS of Millions of parish collected money to HUSH and SILENCE child rape victims and their family's.

The entire College of Cardinals were CERTAINLY aware the Vatican paid HUNDREDS of Millions of dollars to HUSH and SILENCE child rape victims and their family's.

For NOW Pope Ratz to state he was unaware of this is a ABSOLUTELY and TOTAL LIE.

It was Cardinal Ratz's former job in the Vatican for decades to KNOW. Not only did Cardinal Ratz KNOW, all of the College of Cardinals KNEW.

Pope Ratz SHOULD RESIGN.

The US Supreme Court should permit all of the multitude of US Sex Abuse cases against the Vatican and Pope Ratz to proceed and to include Pope Ratz and the Vatican in the US Court Ordered Monetary Settlements.


mary   March 30th, 2010 9:42 pm ET

Honestly, I think the priest representing the Pope on your show, Larry, is correct. There is no proof that the Pope knew about this particular case. It seems truly uncalled for to even have this show because the Pope is the one getting called out about this and he is saying he didn't know and these people aren't offering anything to prove the Pope did knew.

I am not in any way saying there shouldn't have been any action other than cover ups over the years of this terrible, terrible outrage, I am saying though, that pointing at a Pope who was a highly placed person in the Vatican 30 years ago and accursing him of wrongdoing doesn't seem right.


Jeannie C.   March 30th, 2010 9:42 pm ET

@ jack

Well said.
Frankly I am sick of all religion .


Mark   March 30th, 2010 9:42 pm ET

Your guest has the audacity to suggest that the Pope is being libelled. He is harbouring fugitives inside the walls of the Vatican state. This makes him complicit. Period. I was one of many abused by Fr Ross Frey in Massachusetts, and he fled to a Monastery in Lebanon once before he could answer charges. The Pope has absolute authority to command priests to surrender. Yet he doesn't, not Did John Paul before him.. I still love my faith, but have never trusted Ratzinger, since he co-authored the policy of silencing the victim and protecting the Church's reputation.. He and your guest represent how evil lurks in the house of God. Shame on you. How dare you belittle what we have gone through.
Mark, Toronto, Canada


Scott Stodden   March 30th, 2010 9:42 pm ET

Larry I think the Catholic Church's handling of the pope is biased and disgusting! There is evidence that Pope Benedict XVI knows more than what he's saying and you can't tell me otherwise, shame on the pope for covering up the fact that 200 deaf children were raped and molested, imagine the terrible fact of just being deaf you can't hear nothing and then the priest comes and rapes you, are you serious? Then the Pope the earthly Father who the world looks up to as being heavenly and holy covers up the fact that these children were raped, Get the Pope out of the Vatican right now, immediatly! The Catholic Church should feel disgraced about all this, if you can't trust your pastor, priest or whatever or whoever is the head of your church then who the Hell can you trust, I hope and pray the Lord has no mercy on the pope's soul, Pope John Paul the true pope of the world is turning in his grave each and everyday that Pope Benedict stays in power! Maybe Im Gay and sleep with men but I thank God that Im not a cruel and inhumane person or priest who rapes and hurts children, who do you think God is going to accept in his kingdom? Cuz in my eyes the Lord has no forgiveness for this kind of sick and inhumane behavior!

Scott Stodden (Freeport,Illinois)


x-canadian catholic   March 30th, 2010 9:42 pm ET

the screaming blustering Mr. Donahue is a great example of the rot in the church;accuse EVERYONE except the abusers and their protecters


jack   March 30th, 2010 9:43 pm ET

These are the same people that tell people they will go to hell if they practice birth control, subjecting families and even nations to continued poverty, while they come in with their collection plates and get even richer.


Anne Batzer   March 30th, 2010 9:44 pm ET

The only way for any church to have a moral, healthy response to human sexuality is to have a balance between the genders. Women and men must have equal rights within the church and equal positions of power.


Brenda Ffraser   March 30th, 2010 9:44 pm ET

I am a lawyer in Canada and worked on the Grolier Hall sex abuse case in the Northwest Territories. Paul Houston was charged and convicted of sexual assault on students in the 1960's and while we were working on the case in 2001, we saw news reports that Paul Houston was ordained into the priesthood after he was released from prison. Houston was practicing as a priest in Winnipeg, MB, in 2001 and the people who attended that church were not warned about him. The catholic church was named as a defendant and was represented by counsel in discussions/negotiations about settlement in relation to Paul Houston's actions (among other offenders) while at the same time the church knew Houston was given access to potential new victims by being hired as a priest in a church where no one was warned. I am not sure if Houston is not still acting as a priest in another parish. The catholic church ordained Houston who was a known child sex offender at their own residential school. If anyone wants to look this up, check out Grolier Hall Residential School and Paul Houston online.


will robert   March 30th, 2010 9:45 pm ET

It is terrible that the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church in Rome protected these pedophile priests for years and moved them from different churches to prey on more innocent victims. The Cardinals, Bishops and even Popes were just as guilty in they way they handled theses cases. The Vatican knew what was going on for many years. They were more concerned in protecting their own (priests) instead of protecting children first.

It is amazing that the Catholic Church is concerned for the unborn child…but after that child is born, in these cases, they have shown callousness in protecting them. The Pope needs to come forward and admit that the Vatican failed in the handling this manner for any hope in gaining credibility and we need to see some resignations which shows that they are serious about it.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:46 pm ET

@ Dodie, thank you for bringing that back up.

CNN, how MANY children that were raped and sodomized by Vatican priests went on to commit SUICIDE?

Given the extremely large number of convicted clerics of serial prediatation on parish children and the huge numbers of victims, CERTAINLY some in fact went on and committed suicide directly as a result of them being raped by their priest.

CNN, found out for American views on this subject how MANY children that were raped and sodomized by Vatican priests went on to commit SUICIDE?


Carmen Frost   March 30th, 2010 9:46 pm ET

The Vatican needs to get rid of celibacy as a requirement for priests.
If priests were allowed to marry (a man or a woman!) perhaps they wouldn't be abusing innocent children!


jack   March 30th, 2010 9:48 pm ET

@Jeannie C....Yes, "betrayal of sacred trust" as that priest says applies to many religious leaders of all faiths. People like Mr. Donahue who come on TV and loudly defend the indefensible make me sick.


Chris   March 30th, 2010 9:48 pm ET

In regards to Catholic sex scandals. Not only do I blame the priest and Bishop's, I also blame the Catholic's themselves. Meaning the congregation. How could someone of faith on a weekly basis sit in a Catholic churh and pretend nothing is wrong. Long time ago church's would cover-up certain situations if it was in the best interest of the church (the greater good). If the Pope along with all others don't come out/be up front. Could this be the END of the Catholic Faith/Religion.


Nidia Birenbaum   March 30th, 2010 9:49 pm ET

So sad that the Catholic Church has to resort to "safety measures" to now protect children. I thought the church was a "sanctuary". If you can't trust the church why keep sending the children there?


Mark   March 30th, 2010 9:50 pm ET

This is not sexual abuse, it is rape. In typical fashion the catholic church has covered up the truth. Of course what else would can we expect from a religion that is led by a former member of the Nazi youth party.

Of course Ratzinger knew about it, and if he didnt he should have. For the blowhard who calls Ratzinger innocent, I would love to do the same as he just said and punch him in his foul mouth.

I have absolutely no respect for the catholic church, since they are the exact opposite of the teachings of Jesus. As far as I am concerned they should be called the Hypocrite church.

If it wasn't for all the death caused by the church over the centuries, this would be comical, however it is a tragedy that so many people believe in the garbage organized religion spews, especially the catholic church which is the worst of the bunch.


tm lydon   March 30th, 2010 9:50 pm ET

all this catholic crap is just made up to make people feel guilty in the first place ,tell me why i should feel guilty about anything , " original sin " i was`nt born guilty of anything


claryssa correa   March 30th, 2010 9:51 pm ET

I am catholic and I want the Vatican to get rid of the Pope, as soon as possible! He is nothing but the leader of corruption. Shame on the Pope!


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 9:52 pm ET

@ A. Smith

Excellent question. I would also like to see CNN find out the statistics. The only problem is when children commit suicide, if they do not explain why, then this will not be identified' because we as a country, and the church do NOT want to look at the horror of it all.


Tom W.   March 30th, 2010 9:52 pm ET

When all the blind,faithful sheep (parishoners)decide they have had enough and change to another Christian religon , thereby dismantling the Catholic religon,we will be done with this travesty .(and get all the back property taxes they owe the country for the tens of thousands of prime acerage they have been living on tax-free for ages!)


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 9:53 pm ET

@ jack

Thank you! Someone needed to say that


Andrew   March 30th, 2010 9:53 pm ET

Sadly we live in a world where religous figures do not always practice what they preach. The Church should be held accountable for their wreched wrongdoings. Those who aid in the coverup of dispicable acts should be imprisoned or forced to resign.


Isaac chute   March 30th, 2010 9:53 pm ET

Larry great show but how about you ask the priest you have on about the founder of the Legion of Christ, his order if I'm not mistaken. Fr Maciel the founder of the Legion and friend of your guest Fr Bartunik Maciel molested many many boys and even fathered several families and the order is now under investigation by Pope Benedict. Ask fr Bartunik about Maciel and the cases against him.


mjnoah   March 30th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

In the Bible, Revelation 17 and 18, the woman, arrayed in purple and scarlet and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and filthiness is referring to the catholic church and its doctrines which are very twisted and full of idolatry. Years ago, also, this( mother )church killed and tortured many Christians.


Nidia   March 30th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

So many continue to defend the Pope. Religion has great control in people's life, even at their own detriment, and at the expense of the children.


jack   March 30th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

Pope Rats should step down, under the circumstances. In fact shut down the whole evil empire. Do the world a big favor.


Pasco   March 30th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

FIRST OF ALL GOD IS NOT THE PROBLEM AT ALL! Remember these men are the problem!
Pope Fiction is a disgusting man! Just like Cardinal Law of Boston and Cardinal Mahoney in Los Angles besides COUNTLESS others. Hopefully the doors will close as they should have on the FIRST allegation more than a half a century ago.
You know these abuses have touched countless countries around the world.... just think about that! In America alone 4100 priest were CONVICTED of abusing children. The priest just discovered in Milwaukee abused over 200 children alone and this was ONLY one priest. 4100 priest were convicted already in America alone. If each priest abused 200 children we are talking over 800,000 children alone in AMERICA. You still think you should forgive a few priests. Remember these children are the next generation of believers!
God’s exact words… “Be aware of Wolves in Sheep Clothing!” Pope Fiction himself is the leader of these wolves. Jesus himself was put to death by religious leaders over 2000 years ago.
What was the name of the movie a few years ago? The Devil wears Prada. The red shoes the Pope wears are Prada.
I WILL NEVER KNOW UNLESS I ASK!


Joseph   March 30th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

Larry King. I think that you should busy yourself with other things and leave the Church and the Pope alone
If this is a way of finally kiling the church and morality in the USA then rest assured that there are people who will embrace it.


cal   March 30th, 2010 9:55 pm ET

Jesus, I feel so fortunate not to be of the Catholic faith. To have a church that disregards its members pain especially when it has caused it!!!!! This is unreal – people who are suppose to promote goodness etc. and they commit the evil.


jackie   March 30th, 2010 9:55 pm ET

Why is it that the priest that abused children not go to prison? Why did they have a preferential treatment whilst they were supposed to show the example of morals and ethics.

They should be punished extra hard because they abused their position of trust.

The pope was in charged of the comission who was dealing with these cases so how could he not have known. Either he was not suitable or he is lying through his teeth. I believe the latter. It makes me sick. Who is the victim here? Or the catholic using its great excuse of forgiveness. They don't have any credibility anymore.

Is it not time to abolish celibacy? What of kind of people does the church attract with its celibacy? Ever thought about that?


Rafael   March 30th, 2010 9:55 pm ET

You know this is absolutely ridiculous. I mean how many pedephiles and sex offenders are out there living among us. And how many of those get so much media coverage like the priests? I mean really think about it. I heard of a Baptist Youth Leader molesting children in Collingston, LA, why didn't that get blown up as when a priest molests a child? Really? Oh, let me try to figure this out.. The Catholic church is one of the oldest, most traditional, most respected church organization out there, and these other small churches that have not been here anywhere close as the catholic church have to find a way to bring down the Dynasty that the Catholics have built. All this is doing is showing just how powerful and united the Catholic Church is, that people have to go out there make a problem be covered so much by media. Don't get me wrong, the people who do these things are wrong and should suffer the punishment. But don't bring down the church. I mean how many so called "Ministers, Preachers, or Revs" that are out there are committing molestation, adultry, and even scamming their followers for money. And why doesn't that get media coverage. Because they will never be as big and as powerful as the Catholic church and if they ever do the same things will be happening to them. Just watch.


DaVE   March 30th, 2010 9:56 pm ET

I embarrassed to even think I once held the Pope in high regard.


MG   March 30th, 2010 9:57 pm ET

What a crock of crap the catholic church is spewing. How can any adult have respect for this evil organization.

Quit trying to make it seem like this is not a serious issue. Child rape is the mos serious and despicable act, and these people need to be jailed, and the catholic church disbanded. They are greedy selfish low lifes, cowards and in the case of Ratzinger even worse, a part of the holocaust as a member of the young nazis.

I dont have to look any further then to see who the catholic church chose to lead it, a former nazi. They can deny all they want but the truth is the truth and we see right trough their lies.


John   March 30th, 2010 9:57 pm ET

Here's what could be a solution to this problem: Allow Roman Catholic priests to marry prior to ordination like the Orthodox Catholic priests. It's an ancient Christian tradition to allow priests to marry in the Orthodox Church.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 9:57 pm ET

Pope Ratz ordered the Parishes in America to file Bankruptcy rather than Pay the US COURT ORDERED monetary settlements to the thousands of children the Vatican clergy raped and sodomized.

Does that sound like a decent man, much less anyone with ethical and moralistic standards YOU admire?

The order to bypass US Court ordered monetary settlements is a cold hearted and utterly disgusting signal that Pope Ratz does not care one iota about the thousands of sexually abused children and he cares completely about the Vatican's wealth and plunder.


bipolar bear   March 30th, 2010 9:58 pm ET

Donahue seems a throwback to a 'forties movie about Catholics. He is the usual loud, obnoxious rightwing "defender of the indefensible" as one poster put it.

How about taking Sinead's point: if the Pope wants to prove good faith (pun intended) he can put out a papal edict that all molesters, those who know of them, and those who were molested must come forward (go to the police) or be excommunicated if found out.

So simple it's dazzling, yet the Pope will NOT do it.


Joseph   March 30th, 2010 10:00 pm ET

Thomas, if you are looking for pity, well sorry look else where


karl   March 30th, 2010 10:00 pm ET

How nice to see a nest of virulent anti-catholics having fun! They should be ashamed! Yes the church, like people made mistakes. No body can deny that. I strongly believe that they are doing everything in thier power to fix this mess. And I believe with time that the church will overcome this. Enough of this witch-hunt against the pope. Furthermore ms. o'connor from ireland is in no position to be making statements. She is a fervant anti-catholic who will face god in the end for her actions and words.


Brian   March 30th, 2010 10:00 pm ET

What about Svali and what she claims? Wonder if it is true or not ?


tm lydon   March 30th, 2010 10:03 pm ET

the pope should spend all the church`s mony feeding all the hungry people of the world , and sell every catholic church and cathedril on the planit to do so ,, only then can they call themselves truly magnanamous, only then can they say they are doing all they can to help the needy.if you took all the money they`ve spent building church`s and cathedrals and spent it on the poor , there would have never been a poor person in all of the history of the catholic church !!!!!!


Janice Loitz   March 30th, 2010 10:03 pm ET

I have never in my life seen so many hypocrites.Abuse by Priests has been going on for 100's of years.In Canada the Catholic church took native children from their homes and put them in Church run homes and abused them Sexual,pyhsical and mentally. I don't understand how anyone could go to a chruch that is build on blood and corruption

Janice


janine   March 30th, 2010 10:04 pm ET

bill representing the catholic church tonight was just plain scary, and angry....we should be angry at the catholic church for rape...and with men like that representing the church makes it all the more real about some of the quality of people involved in the church. he certainly was not spiritual to me, and i would stay far away from that kind of energy...scary affiliation and representation if you ask me.


J Caldwell   March 30th, 2010 10:04 pm ET

When I was 3 years old, I was abused by Fr. Hinkley in Altus, Oklahoma when he offered to babysit. My father was stationed at the Air Force Base but doing overseas duty at the time. My mother trusted the local Parish Priest so she did go to the Officer's club that evening to meet her friends for a night out.. I remembered the incident when I was 36 years old. I was part of a Network that eventually brought a law suit on the behalf of victims. I did not participate in order to gain any monetary reward–I chose to forgive him completely. I had learned that Mercy has much more value and God will deal with him. I am a healthy person and a strong Catholic due to the principles of love, grace mercy, restitution and forgiveness. I will let Jesus take of me and this poor man in due time. May God have mercy on All of us, JC


Gillian Foster   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

All this talk of the pope's resignation makes it clear that people do not understand the faith. As Catholics we believe not in popes or priests, but Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ we follow, in the sacraments administered by priests (both holy and corrupt). It is Jesus Christ in the Eucharist that we are privileged to partake of at each mass. It is Jesus Christ's crucifiction and resurrection we celebrate each Sunday. The billions of Catholics KNOW that there is something greater than corrupt and abusive priests here. If there wasnt, the church would have been annihilated centuries ago. The Church does needs to purge itself of corrupt priests. This does not mean the pope should resign. Jesus Christ will still be the head of the church, and it is HE who will prevail.


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

Sinead wasn't a very articulate guest, and they must have had audio problems. But, she did have their number years ago.


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

@ Jack

You said it for all of us watching. Anyway, I call the Vatican the Hall of Shame!


Jose   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

Great topic which deserves more time and coverage!! It enfuriated me that I spent more time watching the commercials than anything else, and on top of that Larry says: "and we just touch the surface". Well, if you are going to cover the story, please do it with some depth and enough time to hear the different angles of it.


+Mark   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

Regarding a church that has routinely protected, transferred, and covered up for violent pedophile rapists, and let them remain as priests and leaders with children again and again in their care, the RICO act allows the justice department to go after large organizations that systematically conspire to cover up the crimes committed by members of the organization. Robert Kennedy went after the Mafia on the same basis. These heinous crimes call for the seizure of all properties and the dismantling of this very organized criminal organization.


Jeannie C.   March 30th, 2010 10:05 pm ET

@ Anne Batzer

I completely agree with you about allowing both genders to participate equally and hold positions of power equally. It would radically change the dynamics.


Cody Wolff   March 30th, 2010 10:06 pm ET

It's pathetic that the catholic church continues to deny and cover up the abuse being perpetrated by it's priests, they try to make it out to be the actions of people who they had no idea were doing it but then the church does all it can to hush up the victims. Worse the victims often go on to victimize others spreading this horror like a plague. It is time for the church to be held accountable morally and financially for this!


Janice   March 30th, 2010 10:09 pm ET

I have to say one more thing here. God created Man and Woman and they were meant to be partners.The Catholic Church put in Celibacy ?? That goes against very Nature. As well it attracts people who can then have access to the innocent.

For anyone who has read the history of the Catholic Church it has always been violent self serving and corrupt.


mike   March 30th, 2010 10:10 pm ET

Not to repeat all that has been said about this coverup in the catholic church.
Was Cardnal Ratz in charge when They gave Cardinal Law a reward by bringing him to Rome far a prize position ?
that doesn't sound like punishment to me.
Also- Law's assistant in charge of moving pedophile priests, now Bishop of Manchester, NH, still feels this the FAULT of the Boston Globe for bringing it out.– He is is living so much free-er than the victims.
So much for setting an example.


Mark   March 30th, 2010 10:11 pm ET

Just watched the program here in California. Mr Donahue (sp?) needs to be educated regarding homosexuality. Excuse me sir, these boys were molested and if you wish to split hairs, then it was pederasty. These boys were all under the legal age of consent and how dare you state that it was homosexuality! You sir are uneducated in this regard and you need to study human sexuality before making blanket statements such as that. If the Pope knew of this when he was Cardinal and did nothing, then he aided and abetted the issues and needs to be accountable.

Also sir, do you realise that oft times it is actually heterosexual men who commit such acts? You need to know YOUR facts before opening your mouth and sticking your foot in it – or in your case, both feet.


Jose   March 30th, 2010 10:12 pm ET

@ Lisa, I totally agree. and on top of that, he's basically saying that all priests that molested were gay. talking about defending the indefensible


Dennis Ashworth   March 30th, 2010 10:12 pm ET

The molesting priest scandal has gone on for years and years throughout Canada with very large financial settlements. To my knowledge not one priest has gone to prison or served any type of fine personally or has never been arrested.

WHY? The crime they committed is a crime. What protects a priest from being arrested and jailed like anyone who molests a child. Pedophiles must be removed from the society for many years. Priests who are pedophiles must be imprisoned for a longer period of time since they have a larger responsiblity of trust of the meek – our children. To simply swear at a priest / pedophile and provide some emotional relief for ones self has not effect on correcting the problem.

The prison term must be served. Priests must be arrested and jailed.


Jane   March 30th, 2010 10:12 pm ET

I just happened upon the ending of your show this evening. I am absolutely disgusted by Donahue's equating post-pubescence with being an adult (as I see it). He implies that the priests involved in these unnatural and ungodly acts are associated with homosexuals. As a middle school teacher, I can assure Mr. Donahue that a 12 or 13 year old is most certainly a child who is still developing physcially, emotionally, and mentally. It is astounding that anyone educated has such an egregious lack of knowledge and perspective as does Mr. Donahue. These CHILDREN do not have the judgment to know when they are being manipulated. They are prey to pediphiles and not to homosexuals. I am in complete agreement with Lisa. Please, do not invite him on your show again; his presence undermines your exploration of this sensitive issue and your show's reputation.

Utterly disgusted and agog,

J


Bobbie   March 30th, 2010 10:12 pm ET

After watching Larry's show tonight, I have to say I'm outraged. Outraged that Mr. Donahue was permitted to link homosexuality with child molestation. According to him, 12 and 13 year old boys aren't children. Last time I checked, the twelve year old boys I teach are very much children. Furthermore, most intelligent and well-informed people know that homosexual men aren't child molesters...straight middle-aged men are! The fact that Larry just sat there and didn't call Mr. Donahue "out" on this is disturbing as well. Mr. Donahue was allowed to perpetuate this myth through his unchecked and unfounded comments.

One more thing. Where was Mr. Donahue's compassion for the victims? I saw no compassion, only anger!


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:13 pm ET

@ Gerald

Good choice of words! It seems people with the name of Donahue are askewed somewhere in space. Yes, you have his number or should I say letters behind the name.


Stephen Normand   March 30th, 2010 10:13 pm ET

I am nearly 62 years (december) I went to public school but had to go to Religious Instruction on Wednesdays at the local Roman Catholic School at 2pm each week. the priest came over to collect us with some lay catholic mothers of the parish and escorted us over to the school in walking distance...this priest physicall manhandled us boys in the class room once we were there as he took the 8th grade class for instruction...he threatened boys who wouldn't come over for the class with "bashing our heads in " if we didn't go to Religious Instruction..his colleague a young priest like him when I was in the 6th grade took me into the organ room where thew pipe organ pipes were and he grabbed me and squeezed me as he picked me up off the ground and told me to "hurt Him" by punching him...from the 2nd grade I went over to that church and school and was threatened and smaked around by the nuns too who abused us physically with smacking and pinching and scaring the hell out of us...as we got to older grades some of these nuns physically punched squeezed your neck smacked you all for discipline...they got their kicks by beating on little kids I know cause I was one of them..I told my Irish grandmother once and she said don't say anything cause the Nuns and priests can put a curse on you...now this may all sound ridiculous but it really happened to me and I am certain thousands of others if you would now come forward and say so..this treatment was abusive and would not be tolerated today and it made us scared and fearful of the Church .I gave up on church cause of it and eventually came back but to the protestant church Lutheran and then later the Church of England where I was ordained a priest..the church has it's problems but I can never forget how scared I was and now believe I was abused and affected by this life experience which lasts to this day..all in the name of Christianity...it's absolute truth about abusive priests but the Nuns were just as bad and guilty they should be made to apologise and should be investigated too for their meaness to little boys twisting ears arms and cheeks...I am sorry to have to admit this now at this age but it really happened and I feel better at last for telling what happened to me..I am also a an army veteran of th US army and was a boy scout and nothing was as bad as the experience of being betrayed by the Nuns and Priests of my youth...the confessional was another place for wickedness and nasty words from Father...this so help me God is the truth and now maybe others will say too..after listening to your show tonight Larry enough is enough...this Pope knows believe me just like all of us do but is afraid to admit cause they know how much they've hurt good catholic believers..worst of all children innocent little children who only wanted to believe in Jesus and that these people who had our trust messed with us..why shouldn't they be ashamed to admit the cruelty they inflicted which still hurts to this day...thanks for letting me tell you my story...of growing up as a Roman Catholic child in NYC 1954-1962
Stephen Normand (Revd.~ Church of England Priest~ retired


Patrick E. Trujillo   March 30th, 2010 10:14 pm ET

Pope Benedict XVI, the Curia, the Cardinals, archbishops, bishops, and priests should all resign if they were in involved
in any way with the cover-up of sex abuse crimes.

Benedict XVI, according to the BBC, sent out his directive ("Solicitation
of Crimes by the Vatican") to all the Catholic hierarchy of the world about shielding clergy sex offenders and how the hierarchy were to silence the victims by threatening them with excommunication if they broke their silence.

Obedience rather than charity ranks first with the Pope, the Vatican,
and the Catholic clergy. "Share the glory and the gain; share the
shame and the pain." (P.E.T.)

Let the people then choose their leaders from among the clergy
who are not sex offenders and who have the necessary qualifications.

Catholic Church would do well to learn from America's Constitution.


Adrienne   March 30th, 2010 10:15 pm ET

Larry, I was horrified to hear that a leading spokesman for the Catholic Church could suggest that an adult male's sexual relations with a 12- or 13-year old boy amounts to nothing more than homosexual activity. To call that anything other than pedophilia and a violation of a child and a crime is outrageous - the Church ought to immediately condemn such a remark. For the boys who were abused by priests it is despicable for anyone to blame the victims. Not only were they children who were tragically hurt, and frightened, they were confused because they had trusted the perpetrators and perceived them as holy, good, and powerful.

I couldn't listen to the parade of horribles any longer tonight. The teenager tragically driven to kill herself by peers with adults turning a blind eye; the rape of young boys by priests with impunity; the abuses of the Scientologists - when crimes against people, particularly children, occur in the home, school, or church, somehow they are perceived as something more complex than just a crime. No matter where these crimes take place, harassment, assault, battery, and rape are all crimes that warrant serious consequences.


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:15 pm ET

@Dodie...Hopefully they are losing their grip of fear. They must realize that as people read and learn about their dark history,that their power would shrink. No wonder they burned books and tortured people who disagreed with them, in the past. Ignorant people are easier to exploit. This latest vast conspiracy condoning child rape is beyond the pale.


pranieri   March 30th, 2010 10:15 pm ET

the catholic church should understand that celibacy is against nature and should be a choice instead of a requirement. I cannot believe that people become priests inorder to molest children. everyone must have a sexual outlet inorder to be healthy.


Mary Jean   March 30th, 2010 10:16 pm ET

Is Mr Donahue suggesting that post pubescent boys can be raped and then it is not a crime? He is one angry dude.. Sexually abusing a 13 year old is a criminal act. I have not lost my faith in God but have lost all faith in the Catholic church because this secrecy, coverup and protecting of themselves over protecting children is not something I want to be a part of.


Dr. Sandy   March 30th, 2010 10:17 pm ET

As Donahue is uncomfortable with the term "pedophile" for adults who force themselves on minor children and/or adolescents, perhaps the term "statutory rapist" would suit him, and the church he defends, better. In the name of transparency, of course.

Further, what difference could sexual orientation possibly make in a celibate individual?

This psychologist who cares for victims is outraged on every possible level.


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:18 pm ET

Sorry Donahue

The children do not take on the perceptions of the bullies. Only of those in power as parents. They are just terrified and trying to abide the bullies so they will not be a target. Donahue, you are walking... running down the wrong path.


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:21 pm ET

@ Jack

as long as people are gripped by fear, they will be manipulated. Look at the USA. We have been manipulated in to believing that acts of evil will get us, so we are supporting 2 wars for how many years? 9? It is amazing how easily people can be 'lead' like sheeple using the fear tactic!


kelly   March 30th, 2010 10:26 pm ET

There is no excuse for the actions of pedophile and sexually abusing priests. There is Also no excuse for cover up.

This includes the following:

Local police, prosecutors and politicians; royalty; news media from the past.

The Catholic church has many problems but don't use the Catholic church and scape goat and smoke screen for the greater crimes that happen and atrocities against children that happen EVERYDAY!! Keep your hate for religion and personal issues under scrutiny as well.

While the Catholic church deserves its time under the microscope and guilty parties should be investigated and those found guilty need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law:

Lets not forget the OLD BOYS CLUB!!!! and all its manifestations:

Business vacations with special benefits (Thailand comes to mind)

The Anglican church

The Baptist Church

The Pentacostal Church

The Lutheren Church

The Federal and church school programs world wide for aboriginal children

High school teachers (how many married their students in the past)

Politicians

The Cubs and Boy Scouts of America and Canada (aka Bayden Powell)

Current European elites including royalty ( Child pornography and Trafficing) rings under investigation.

Foster homes

Physicians( including recent case of pediatrician)

Hockey, football and baseball leagues for children

Jewish rabbi crimes including prominent community leader in Montreal 2009

Fundamentalist Muslim and Sheik leaders who feel its OK for an 8 year old to marry

Rap stars and musicians

Actors and Hollywood including Roman Polanski

Boys and Girls clubs

New age religious cults

Hindu religious leaders including Hari Krishna's

THE WORST CULPRIT OF ALL: The family-by far most sexual abuse happens within the child's family.

JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVEN'T SPOKEN UP-doesn't mean it is not pervasive over the last 50 years! The last millenium.

There are no sacred cows and there are NO innocent institutions, families or communities.

Born again


Duane   March 30th, 2010 10:30 pm ET

One of the priests that you had on tonight made mention that there has been great strides in the pass 10 years which seem to result in less of the abuses. My question is if no one seems to want to admit what was happening, who made the suggestions about what to put in place and when and where? Someone is not telling the truth or maybe they can't because of confession secrecy.


Theresa   March 30th, 2010 10:31 pm ET

@ Jean...so,you think if the pope knew of any of this he would not stand by idle...why would you think this? Do you really think just because he holds the title of pope he is beyond sin? It is so ironic...isn't that what people thought of priests years ago...tht they would never sink so low to be pedophiles ....attack their victims but make them promise to tell noone!!! Your church is in big,big trouble & you & your members keep saying the pope is beyond reproach then you yourself has a problem. Many of these cardinals & yes the present day pope I'm sure is part of the secrecy of these crimes. Who in God's name was that guest who was protecting the pope on Larry King tonight? He also thinks you have to yell &get angry to get your point across. I do not understand how anyone can trust any hiearchy associated with the Catholic church. I'd rather stay @ home & have communion with God alone!!!


Terri   March 30th, 2010 10:32 pm ET

Thank you Sinead for asking the question re: "post-pubescent" in North America. I CANNOT believe that that ignorant man, thinks that a 14 year old child would be of age to consent, therefore coming to the conclusion that the pedophiles in the Church are homosexual.
I am so sorry that the interview was cut off. Please, please, come back to Larry King to rebut this disgusting false theory of this man.
I am not a Catholic, but my husband is and my children are attending Catholic School in Canada. We are encouraging our boys to think broadly and to stand up for the rights of the innocent. Keep fighting my sister. I have been behind you since the SNL appearance and remain behind you to this day.
With utmost respect and love,
Terri,
London, Ontario Canada


Irene J. Williams   March 30th, 2010 10:32 pm ET

I am one of the 47 women in Ontario, Canada who came forward in 2005 to the police for the second time in my life regarding my sexual abuse by the now deceased R.C. Priest Charles H. Sylvestre. He sexually molested me from 8-1/2 to almost 11 years old. I first reported my abuse in January of 1962. I lived in silence for decades (my children didn't even know until 2005), after my reporting my abuse, as I was told to never speak of my abuse again. The church moved this priest to other parishes through the years, where he continued his abuse of young girls. He was charged and convicted of 47 counts of sexual abuse, but many more came forward after the trial. He died in an Ontario prison, at the age of 83; three months into his 3 year jail term (which was pretty well a life sentence). By the way, my original police report was found in 2007 "amongst accounting papers" in the Diocese of London and a copy was sent to me. I need to say that I still believe in God. This is one part of me Sylvestre didn't rip away from me.

HE WAS NOT A HOMOSEXUAL! HE WAS A PEDOPHILE! HE ONLY LIKED YOUNG GIRLS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 7 AND 15.

The now Pope, Joseph Ratziner spent 20 years "writing" the document "Crimen Sollicitationis", of which I have read. In a nut shell it states that any priest, bishop, archbishop, or anyone who works within the Catholic Church would be excommunicated if they were to reported any crimes committed by clergy, no matter what the crime. All crimes committed were to be handled by the CHURCH!

Pope Joseph Ratziner and his co-conspirators should resign! They may not answer to their sins on this earth, but when God comes for them, God will give them HIS OWN SENTENCING. MAY HE HAVE MERCY ON THEIR SOULS.

I am working hard to bring awareness to public regarding "Protecting our children" from being sexually abuse through the tour of a quilt, which was envisioned by myself and two other of my childhood friends, who were also abused by this priest. The guilt is titled, "Shattered Lives Held Together By A Common Thread" and has many panels contributed by victim and left to hang for three months in public location in each city. I am sorry to say that at each one of my presetations on this subject, there is at the most, only one or two people from the pubic. This subject is still "taboo" with the public. The Mayors, Police Chiefs, and Sexual Abuse Centres in the cities are always in attendance, which is a blessing.

I PRAY FOR ALL OF THE WOMEN & MEN SEXUALLY/PHYSICALLY ABUSED BY CLERGY.

I.J. Williams, Ontario, Canada


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:33 pm ET

@Dodie..True, and since last administration told such bald faced lies, and did so much harm to our country, I think it is harder for people to believe politicians on those occassions they do tell the truth. Too bad the tea partiers have such amnesia , and forgot who is responsible for the country's woes. Now the outraged tea partiers want to carry on the campaign of fear and war and regressive politics. Hope their movement gives it a rest. They are getting tiresome. Clown shows lose their entertainment value fast. Especially when they take themselves so seriously.


Michael Jones   March 30th, 2010 10:36 pm ET

The Vatican's age of consent may be 12.

But the acts charged were not done in the Vatican. The Holy See's laws do not extend into sovereign lands.

And thank God for that.

At the end of the day, abuse is abuse – doesn't matter if the victim is 12 or 92. None of the complainants are arguing they've been raped voluntarily.


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:36 pm ET

jack

All the Cheney/bush administration had to do is create fear and we as a country became beLIvers!


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:39 pm ET

@kelly... According to the NT , Jesus said do not sew new cloth on an old garment. If something goes rotten, it may be best to just throw it out , and find something fresh and nutritive.


Niko the Farmer   March 30th, 2010 10:43 pm ET

Donahue epitomizes the Catholic Church. Corrupt to the core, dishonest, disingenuous, and, most of all, quick to scapegoat. "Good thing we keep those homosexuals out" he says. Typical of the Catholic church - find an evil from which you can sell salvation. It's big business, and profitable. The church has been doing this, entirely without conscience, for centuries. The Catholic church has ruined more lives than any modern-day tyrant.

This is not about homosexuals. It's about pedophiles with access to children because they occupy a position of supposed trust. A position based upon a nearly 2000 year-old fraud. The Catholic church is organized crime, and its crimes go far beyond child abuse. If anyone thinks the church is even remotely associated with God, or divinity, or anything good, they are out of their mind. They will continue to blame the victims, homosexuals, or, as Donahue stated, "liberals" (the new boogeymen), and everyone else, but they will never put the blame where it belongs - on themselves. When will people smarten up and put this criminal enterprise out of business?


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 10:43 pm ET

Jack

Are you a Catholic that "saw the white light" of reason?


J Caldwell   March 30th, 2010 10:44 pm ET

Comments here can be very damaging to your own souls. For less than $10, a very readable paperback Catechism of the Catholic Church will assist any person who wants to understand what the Church believes. Please be careful and consider that ignorance can make one a fool. Most critics do not know what the church teaches and it is my hope that you will truly care to educate yourself and see for yourself.

We all want the abuses to stop everywhere . More hate and more ignorance is not the way to go. Those who suffer the effect of any abuse are dear to God's heart and Jesus weeps with them. There is comfort for you sitting before the Holy Eucharist in any Catholic Church and the Lord Jesus is present 24 hrs/day. He is truly there and is waiting for you to come and tell Him what is in your heart.

May His Grace and Mercy comfort all victims.


Steven   March 30th, 2010 10:45 pm ET

William Donohue is trying to subsume the issue of molestation by priests into his anti-homosexual agenda, but my wife and one of her girlfriends were molested by a Catholic priest in 1970 when she was 10. The issue of whether one can practice illicit sexual relations of ANY kind and still be a Roman Catholic priest or, for that matter, a congregant in good standing is a separate matter from child molestation, which clearly is not a problem limited to homosexuals.


Luis B Rosario   March 30th, 2010 10:46 pm ET

@Pasco Troia
You say that you discovered your own past sexual abuse
as a child at age 32? And you wrote a book titled Behind the
Altar. I believe that there are child abuse victims out there.
Are you trying to sell a book, or are you one of the victims?
In the latter scenario, is Pasco you real name?


Jeannie C.   March 30th, 2010 10:46 pm ET

@ kelly

Its unfortunately true that child abuse is pervasive – everywhere – and that religion itself isn't guilty of anything. However when any organization colludes for decades to hold these crimes secret, they need to be held accountable for their actions regardless of who is involved.

All of my four aunts were nuns who served the church for years. They were kind and good women. Sadly, many priests and nuns were not kind-hearted or good people. These people remain above the law much too long and they have left in their wake a truly horrific legacy .


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:46 pm ET

@kelly...But doesn't the Pope claim to be infallible, and his pronouncements are divine edicts? That sets a high standard indeed. So, when they show themselves to be all too human, we have the right to call them out on their lies. Especially, since they exert so much influence in the world, and their policies affect all of our lives.


Ginny Wray Clark   March 30th, 2010 10:47 pm ET

I born and raised a Catholic. My church broke my heart, I do not go to church anymore because they continue to harbor criminals and will never change. They just don't get it, and I don't think they ever will.
God help them on Judgment Day.


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:49 pm ET

@Dodie..no, I was never guilty of that particular sin...lol


Luis B Rosario   March 30th, 2010 10:53 pm ET

@ Theresa
I thought that you were a Christian person the other day. Do I
I have the right person, or was she another Theresa?


jack   March 30th, 2010 10:57 pm ET

My uncle, by marriage, grew up in Chicago. He has long since past, but he told a story of how he lost his faith in the Catholic Church, when he happened to see a priest and nun having forbidden sex. At least they were grownups, practicing good old fashioned sex , and not dispicable pedophiles. But , hypocricy is always a hard thing to observe. A person could have more respect, if they would just marry and quit pretending they never have sex. Abstinence is fine. But to lie about something few people can practice all their lives, simply adds to their duplicity.


BJ   March 30th, 2010 11:01 pm ET

Just when I thought the Catholic church's PR machine could sink no lower, William Donahue of the Catholic League states that rapist priests are not pedophiles, but homosexuals, because the people they raped were post-pubsecent. Not only is this statement ridiculous and an outright lie, but insulting to homosexuals and those of us who are abuse survivors.

Pathetic.


Eileen Torres   March 30th, 2010 11:02 pm ET

post-pubescent...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

My brother Dennis was physically and sexually abused by priests throughout his entire childhood, starting at age FOUR. This abuse took place in an ORPHANAGE. I heard the stories from him back in the late 70's. Dennis was angry, but too ashamed and too cynical to report this to anyone. He just told me.

He is deceased now. He died of complications from HIV. Many won't agree with me on this, but I believe he was involved in a gay lifestyle due to the fact of this childhood molestation. Years of same sex child abuse can have an affect on you. Gay or straight isn't the point thoug -except he might still be alive.

Please. Imagine being taken from your home at age four because your mother suffers a nervous breakdown and is hospitalized for two years. You are placed in Saint John's orphange, Philadelphia, where you are physically and sexually abused. You have no where to go. Remember, you are FOUR. Imagine. your very survival depended on your sexual availability to priests – and they knew it. One stripped him naked and locked him outside for hours one cold January evening. Dennis banged on the door pleading to be let in. That is torture. It was because he said no. He was ten. They had complete control of these vunerable children. They were monsters.

All I can do is personally take pleasure in the fact that this scandal seemed to come out right after Dennis died. I like to think that he was working on exposing the truth from the other side. Sounds crazy but it is how I can feel he got some form of justice.

I have no hidden motive for writing this. There is no lawsuit here. Nothing like that. I am not a church hater. I don't hate anything, except what happened to my brother.


Michael Jones   March 30th, 2010 11:04 pm ET

if there's a God, that "12-13 year old is OK, just kind of gay" argument will be replayed tomorrow and forever as evidence of how deep the dysfunction is. Anyone have a video to share? I've got a diary on Kos on this one. I threw something at the TV when I heard that one.

And it's a damn shame it happened just at cutoff to AC – this one has billions of miles on it. I mean, Bill Donohue just kind of rationalized NAMBLAs existence. South Park's story arcs just merged into a singularity.


Rosella Carpenter   March 30th, 2010 11:04 pm ET

I was a Catholic, or I guess I still am but not active. In 1950 my mother and a girlfriend of mine were both approached by a priest
with sexual advances to both of them. This I did not know until
the '60s My mother and my girlfriend, ages Mothers age 45, and
friends age was 12. My mother got this priest removed from our
parish after a lot of anger, and her being put down for fighting for
trying to have him removed. He was removed, after my mother
threatened to take it to the news. (and my father was a supervisor
of the newspaper, and he argued with mother.) Fr. Christoper
Murphy was removed, suposelly to treatman center, and after
5 or 6 years, he had another parish. Now i am still sickened to
receive my Catholic High School News and there is a memorial
fund in this paper for Fr. Christopher Murphy. Up to date, my
daughter Kara (and I will disclose her married name ). My daughter
joined a Methodist Church, and in the past 8 or 9 years worked as
the church secreatary. She found out her pastor was carrying on several affairs due to the em's that came through the church. He
made inappropriate remarks concerning my grand daughter and
my daughter. (he made these to my daughter). She is not one
to sit back and take this. She went to Head Methodist Man ,I'm not sure what they are called, after several months it came to the
point that this "Man of God" would "retire"/ She had to sign an
article that said if he was removed, she would not disclose the reason. Also my daughter found out he was removed from his
previous assignments for the same reason, except the female is
this case was fired and he continued on. Needless to say, my
daughter was fired, she is ccmpletely shunned in her community,
but this man is still having revivals, and is still active in the church/
So this is my story-both concerning Catholic and other religions.
I think I really get upset when I see, this is in all religions, but the
Catholics are the "ONE" who is doing wrong. I have really come
to the conclusion that there are several groups that should be more
careful who they place in what position. I am very leary of Scout
Leaders, youth pastors, and other groups that are role models of
our children. I don't like the anger I feel, at 72 life should be nice
and easy, but this needs to be aired. My mother tried, and my
daughter has tried. , but back in the 50s
my mother was sheltering me and I didn't know this for years. My
friend talked to my mother but she never mentioned it to me.
There is no way in hell that I would contribute to my old high school
Knoxville Catholic Hight School, and I wish I could tell these people
what little I know.

I don't want this to be public, but I will tell you what Fr. Christopher
Murphy asked my mother and I heard this from her when I was in
my late 20s- "how many fingers does it take to satisfy you?"
Thank you for letting me vent, I guess I'm still young enough to
fight and if there is any way I could get his name taken off of this
memorial to him I would!!!
rosella


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 11:06 pm ET

I asked as you seemed to know something very specific about Jesus. I certainly support all priests and everyone else with the ability of marriage. They do in the Jewish religion, and there seems to be little to no problem with molesting children. It is a normal drive. To expect people to make a life long choice between serving god and their own happiness/ intimate connection is really very sad.


Mary McDonald   March 30th, 2010 11:08 pm ET

Go after the Catholic Church's achilles heel. Property and donations to the church. Can't the police confiscate property when an alledges crime has been committed? If fould guilty, Auction off the property and give the proceeds to the victims. They do it in drug deals don't they? Where do one put the value on a childs stolen childhood?
The perpatrarors are rapists, sodomists, and the anti-christ all in one.
Don't make any payment to the Catholic Church until Justice is done.


jack   March 30th, 2010 11:08 pm ET

@Stephen Normand...Interesting story. Glad you escaped their grip of fear and superstition. Do you suppose the nuns may have hated little boys, because of their repressed lifestyle under the domination of priests? Do you feel that might have been part of the reason they slapped you boys around and physically abused you?


Luis B Rosario   March 30th, 2010 11:08 pm ET

@ Bobbie
I'm not too intelligent or well-informed but I knew some
homosexual teachers that had sex with students in their teens.
They were never prosecuted.


ricki white   March 30th, 2010 11:09 pm ET

Saw the show about the church tonite. I am 62 year old woman. and I have a twist for the Church. I was molested by a teacher ina private school in Fla. when I was 12. I was very upset, but afraid to tell my parents directly, so I had my mother take me to the Priest at the local Catholic Church, St. Colemans,as I was raised Catholic. I thought he would know what to do. WRONG!!! He pretty much called me a LIAR, asking my mother if I was "Prone to making up Tales". Of course my parents believed me–how could a 12 year old even begin to make up such a thing, especially in those days. The Pope should resign if only to make a statement to thevictims of this horrible thing thats been going on for decades!


luckybee   March 30th, 2010 11:10 pm ET

Even if there are Good preachers in the Katholiek church, it will remain something bad.God have left them for a very long time.I think Satan have them in his might.


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 11:14 pm ET

@ luckybee

People need connection and intimate connection. To expect someone to make a decision their entire life between god and intimacy is very sad


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 11:21 pm ET

jack

Those desires are natural with all adults. To try and stop that desire is cutting of a major release necessary in the human biological process. I also thought auto eroticism was taboo in the Christian/Catholic Church. Very sad indeed. One would wonder how they channel all the tension?


Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia   March 30th, 2010 11:23 pm ET

I think this all boils down to sexual deprivation.
If the priests are allowed to marry, this will not happen.
P.S. I was schooled in a convent run by the St Franciscan order. i have always admired the nuns.
Selfless devotion to the kids.


former Catholic   March 30th, 2010 11:23 pm ET

Thank you Mr. Larry King for helping protect our children. Please keep this alive. The Catholic Church does not care to listen; however, the parishioners around the world should have the right to listen. Victims around the world need to be "heard".


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 11:28 pm ET

@ Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

That is what I had mentioned, If the priests could marry like in the Jewish religion, there would not be this problem. I believe it is also difficult for the Nuns as well, maybe not for the driving force however still the desire of companionship.


Sharon   March 30th, 2010 11:29 pm ET

Apparently the criminal priests don't believe a word they preach-don't believe in Hell. So why are they priests at all-because it's a simple, protected route to violating children?

The number of lives that have been irreversibly damaged is worse than criminal. This is an epidemic.

These men should be jailed. Catholics need to take a stand. Stand up in your pews at church, protest in the streets. To remain silent on this issue is to be an accessory. This is not to be tolerated.

My heart goes out to the victims. There is nothing that can ever make up for such violation. God bless them for speaking out, it takes such courage.

I agree with you Eileen, your point is taken.

Are there any nuns speaking out on this-ANYWHERE?


jack   March 30th, 2010 11:29 pm ET

@J Caldwell...And just how can exposing the Pharisees of our time and challenging a coverup of pedophilia , and a dark history of evil acts going to "damage " anyone's soul. In fact it can be quite liberating. No disrespect to your book of Catechisms. They may well be beautiful and sacred, but we are citing instances of wrongdoing by humans representing themselves as special representatives of a higher order. The bar is what they themselves set, and it is very high. I will admit I have done many things they would label sins, but I am not a priest, either.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 11:37 pm ET

Catholics look to Pope Ratz as the apostolic succession of Jesus Christ. They bow to Pope Ratz, kiss his hands, kiss his huge golden elaborate rings and pray to him as God in the flesh.

Pope Ratz ordered his Church Parishes in America to file Bankruptcy rather than Pay the US COURT ORDERED monetary settlements to the thousands of children the Vatican clergy raped and sodomized.

Does that sound like a decent man, much less anyone with ethical and moralistic standards YOU admire?

The order to bypass US Court ordered monetary settlements is a cold hearted and utterly disgusting signal that Pope Ratz does not care one iota about the thousands of sexually abused children and he cares completely about the Vatican's wealth and plunder.

I can think of NO WORSE example of a religious leader.

Pope Ratz is a utterly disgusting religious father-head who has not even a grain of the spirit of Jesus Christ running in his body.

Pope Ratz should RESIGN

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages and shunned by the civilized world.


Ann-Virginia   March 30th, 2010 11:39 pm ET

Frank h,you clearly are on the side of the church.How could you defend those people for doing,over many years,what they did to those children?Just because you don't agree with what is being reported doesn't mean it's wrong.CNN is a responsible news organization who fact checks & would not report a story unless it were fact.In days of old,if you disagreed with the Catholic church,you died.At least they have improved on that.Now they just allow children to be molested on a continuous basis & do nothing about it.All who have committed these crimes need to be prosecuted,including the pope if proved he knew & failed to act.All of these people who were molested can't possibly be lying.Who has the most to lose????


Dodie   March 30th, 2010 11:40 pm ET

@ A. Smith, Oregon

I have not checked out the facts, but if what you say is true, it really is a tragedy. It could have belonged in one of Shakespeare's plays...


John H   March 30th, 2010 11:43 pm ET

This site is a cesspool of athiests and anti Catholics and they all feed on one anothers bias, hatred, and misinformation. I know this will be met with a landslide of self-serving know it all comments meant to reinforce each others hatred and predujice. Someone needs to stand up and challenge this rubbish. Yes there are evil things done by the leadership and membership of the Church just as there are evil things done in our society outside the Catholic Church. If someone has committed a crime, then he/she should be punished. But we are not likely to be swayed by the atheist and anti-catholic rhetoric expressed here. We will clean our our own house, thank you. I am familiar with the anti-religious points of view of a few of the regulars here and I have to tell you they are the last people on earth I would take advice from. As for bringing the Pope before the U.S. Supreme Court; good luck with that!


Mary McDonald   March 30th, 2010 11:47 pm ET

Hit the Catholic Church were it hurts. Un the Pocket-book. Demand that guilty perpatrators must serve prison time. I'm guessing the inmates will not treat them with the utmost respect either. . Confiscate the property and auction it off to the highest bidder. And then
pass the money to the victims.
Don't support the Catholic Church until this situation is addressed.
My prayres are with the victims and their loved ones.


J Caldwell   March 30th, 2010 11:52 pm ET

@Jack I did not intend, at all, to ignore the atrocities of those committing heinous acts against anyone. My point is that the insinuations about the Church, Pope Benedict XI, teachings etc. are based on a lack of knowledge about how the Church is structured to prevent abuses and/or to offer reconciliation or excommunication. I am reading others ideas here about the Church itself which are erroneous. There is an Evil One/Satan who hates the Catholic Church and will possess and oppress anyone who allows it. Thus, abuse begins within the heart of many who are in positions to do good and not evil. Let us consider this broader perspective on the origin of evil in society and how it affects our children and all those who are unable to defend themselves.

God's Word tells us that we battle not against flesh and blood but against the principalities and powers–Satanic presences/spirits. The point of being a Christian, Catholic or otherwise, is to not only understand and proclaim Jesus crucified for all of our sins but to believe and live in His Resurrection. Those who are baptized into that death and resurrection have the Hope of the final resurrection into the true Kingdom of God. It is this very Hope that Satan is set against within those whose weaknesses allow it. If one is celibate, then the temptation will come in the form of a sexual misconduct. If one is given a responsibility to lead a congregation or business etc then other temptations will be presented.

There are the vices and the virtues-we become stronger in virtue as we overcome the vices one day at a time. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ever present to answer our cries and prayers for strength to overcome. Jesus Christ is our example to persevere in these times and stay focused on the higher good for all. We are also asked to offer Restoration and Mercy to those who ask for it–not to those who choose to continue in doing evil.


jack   March 30th, 2010 11:56 pm ET

Just reading a selection of stories here, makes me wonder why anyone would still want to support an institution rife with both sexual and harsh physical child abuse. I feel sorry for those who had to endure such abuse. If I were Catholic, I would get out , and never give them one more red cent. I have nothing against you fine people who happen to be Catholic. You can take action and get out or make them accountable. They are human beings to. They can certainly change, and quit living in the Dark Ages. I have said nothing that has not been supported by history and facts. If anything I have vastly understated the problems. Read just the acounts on this page of people who were abused, or had their family members abused, and see if you can defend this. The accounts here are just a small , random sampling. Just think of the large numbers around the world, and over a vast period of time who have also suffered, and were too afraid to tell their story.


Kent morean   March 31st, 2010 12:01 am ET

I was pleased to learn that the Pope has instituted a O tolerance policy with strict monetering for compliance to stop the sin of homoseual abuse of young boys by some Priests. And I am pleased and surprised that the U.S. Bishops have had the courage to institute the politically incorrect policy of screening out homosexual applicants to Catholic seminaries. God is purifying his Church!


Ann-Virginia   March 31st, 2010 12:02 am ET

Anyone still living who abused these children or was aware of it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law & that includes the Pope.In olden days if you disagreed with the Catholic chuurch you were killed for going against the church.Things haven't improved much.


jack   March 31st, 2010 12:09 am ET

@J Caldwell..You seem to be a thoughtful and spiritual person. I was not disrespecting anyone's particular faith. The big objection is not only in the fact that there are miscreants operating within the vast Catholic Church. Naturally there will be in any large organization, religious or otherwise. The problem is what seems like an ongoing coverup, denial and hypocricy about the issue of child abuse. The problem is huge, and needs to be addressed, not ignored or dismissed as mere "gossip."


former Catholic   March 31st, 2010 12:10 am ET

Dear John H.
Do you know any victims? Any idea what they have gone through?


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 12:19 am ET

How many young innocent children committed suicide after being repeatedly raped and sodomized while under the care of Vatican Clergy?

CNN Staffers have the resources to find out how many children that were raped and sodomized by the Vatican Clergy went on and took their own lives as a result of that horrific experience that shattered their young innocent lives.


Gerry   March 31st, 2010 12:20 am ET

I'm catholic myself.I believe if the pope knows something he should just confess and let God forgive him.So he can be what a true Pope should do and show the way of God to the people and be a righteous man. Because at the end of the day God is the one who judges of all.


Deborah   March 31st, 2010 12:21 am ET

I left a lengthy comment earlier, but do not see it posted here, so will leave another. Re: Mr. Donahue. Again, my experience with this type of personality has proven to be someone a) VERY angry, b) in COMPLETE and UTTER denial about the subject matter, AND/OR c) VERY insecure, if not a "functioning paranoid", d) "part of the problem" NOT "part of the solution" (meaning either they were molested BY A PRIEST or family member at some point in their early life, OR were/are a MOLESTER themselves – which CAN also happens when a child is molested/raped by ANY pedophile, priest or not. By his bellowing manner, I can also conclude that the Church is PAYING Mr. Donahue to "deflect and defame", very well indeed. However, unless ANY listener is living under a ROCK, and IGNORANT, NO ONE is gong to believe ANYTHING Mr. Donahue says. All he is doing is spewing the same abusive words every other miserable coward has, over centuries. I DO think that Mr. Donahue would make a very successful Nazi Concentration Camp guard. Philosophy: Don't THINK, just DO as you are told. It MUST be right because "I" (Mr. Donahue), is told by whatever hierarchy that is intimidating enough that "it is so", and to question otherwise will only mean DEATH for the questioner. My own father (an educated man, with a strong FAITH in God), taught me to "question authority". If I was just learning TONIGHT that Mr. Donahue was President of the Catholic League (and therefore, a supposed example of the "good", rational side of the Catholic Church), I would RUN as fast as my feet would carry me, to the nearest EXIT door of the Catholic Church. And yes, my children and I are now FORMER members of the Catholic Church. NOT because we ever had any horrific, abusive experiences like your earlier guests, but because after years of being de-valued, treated as if my children and I weren't "worthy", since my husband/their father had ABANDONED our family, and I had the audacity to file for DIVORCE, followed by a) the way I was treated after my husband DIED and left us without any means of support, NO life insurance, only THOUSANDS of dollars of DEBT, b) the way my children were treated by a particular parish priest AND a teacher (obviously mentally ill, and who subsequently was "let go" – quietly – by that same parish priest), to my young children. This was in the 1990's! The result was that I quickly REMOVED my children from that mentally abusive environment, NEVER to return. As a parent and an ADULT, I could make that decision. CHILDREN cannot advocate for themselves, and it is getting worse by the DAY. Mr. Donahue is not only a serious detriment to the Church, but in the need of LENGTHY, mental health counseling as well. Yelling and screaming and saying THIS PROBLEM a) ONLY existed during the 1950's and 1960's (when it is well documented WAY into the 1980's and beyond), OR b) this terrible abuse did NOT occur AT all (again, well-documented as FACT, EVEN BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH), AND c) the Pope is being maligned for NO reason what-so-ever (and again, documented evidence to the contrary), well...my grandfather had a saying..."if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...ITS A DUCK!". These poor youngsters, and even those at 12, 13, 14 years of age, have BRAINS that are still in critical DEVELOPMENTAL stages. They simply CANNOT comprehend what is happening to them when abused and mistreated. They feel that NO ONE will believe them – and many times they are right – and THE PRIESTS AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH know this is so! Couple that with good old fashioned "Catholic Guilt", the believe drilled into your head that priests (and nuns), are ALWAYS right, that "punishment" is just part of the curriculum, that God is a punishing, hateful God, etc. and you have the makings of a very sick, SECRET society indeed, IF put into and under the WRONG person's control. Perhaps the (now) Pope Benedict is NOW showing visible concern for what has occurred within the Catholic Church, but by all accounts, NOT enough concern, remorse, or ACTION has taken place, to date. Also, I must say that I personally, have had only the very best experiences with the nuns in my life, but I also know of those (children at the time), who did NOT. It has affected their lives dramatically, even to this day. I believe that a fundamental problem for the Catholic Church from the very beginning of its existence, is the CELIBACY issue. Why not let the priests marry? The Orthodox Church does, so do the Lutherans, etc. Their priests seem not only happy, but more focused in their spiritual lives and service to their communities as well. I am also beginning to feel that perhaps, in order for the Catholic Church to move forward at all, it is time for the Pope to step down and let a younger, more open to change, and openly apologetic person take the lead. The Pope MUST apologize TO the victims of abuse, as well as FOR the abusers who continue to go unpunished and unrepentant. Otherwise the Catholic Church could, very well become like the Dodo...EXTINCT. I don't believe the Catholic Church REALLY understands just how infuriated many Catholics (and others) are, and are willing to not only SPEAK OUT, but DO something to "wake up" the Church, and out of their great frustration, including leaving the Church, for good. I'm NOT saying to abolish the Pope as the position of authority at the Head of the Catholic Church, but removing the "lightening rod" at this juncture, would certainly give the Church a fresh start, and a chance to a) heal, b) move in a more progressive direction, and c) perhaps regain the former Catholic members who have left the Church. Look what happened after 9/11? MANY people came back to the Church, as well as many people becoming Catholics who were not before. I also feel that those that are DIVORCED members of the Church should NOT be punished by being denied the ability to take communion each week, or "forced" to annul their marriage, and DENY their children's legitimacy in order to be "allowed" to do so. Finally, I also STRONGLY feel that FAMILY, CHRISTIANITY, DECENCY and MORALITY ARE and have been under the very worst of attacks ever witnessed, today. If you cannot see this very clear warning, perhaps it is time to stop and contemplate this matter. Our planet cannot continue along this path, without serious consequence, if not total destruction. PLEASE take heed, and return HUMANITY to a more sane existence. It CAN be done. Our children are counting on we, ADULTS to guide them, and see them through this very difficult walk through LIFE. They MUST have a future. Take time to discuss your concerns, LISTEN, EDUCATE yourself before just REACTING. Communicate with your family, those around you, your Church. Speak logically, with an EDUCATED (including spiritually), mindset. Anything is possible, if we only believe.


Mona Villarrubia   March 31st, 2010 12:31 am ET

By its handling of the child abuse crisis, the Catholic Church has shown it is not pro-life.

If I was an unborn -child I would have the whole Catholic Church fighting to protect me. There would be Encyclicals and whole Sundays dedicated to saving me, bumper stickers and lawn signs protesting my innocence and my right to life, marches and protests on my behalf.

But I am a 4 year old whose priest thrust his fingers deep inside me, week after week.

If I was an unborn child I would have Catholic lobbyists paid to speak on my behalf, Catholic lawyers to draft legislation to protect me.

But I am an 8 year old altar boy given altar wine and then raped by my priest and forced to confess to him afterwards to repent my evil.

If I was an unborn child I would have lawyers speaking before legislative committees and Senate hearings demanding that I be protected even though I cannot yet speak.

But I am a Catholic victim and I have canon lawyer-priests speaking before legislative committees and Senate hearings to against raising the statute of limitations for child sexual abuse cases and arguing for the rights of Catholic priests to remain silent when they hear about child abuse by a fellow priest even when the conversation is outside of confession, because every conversation with a priest has the expectation of confessional secrecy.

If I was an unborn child I would be safe from pedophile priests…for now!


Dodie   March 31st, 2010 12:34 am ET

@ A. Smith, Oregon

i report might get their attention more than these blogs...

Your question is a valid one. I suspect much of the information is hidden from view... as in buried in an unmarked grave!


former Catholic   March 31st, 2010 12:36 am ET

Dear Frank h. Have you listened to any victims? Let's listen to the victims and learn the real truth.


jack   March 31st, 2010 12:36 am ET

Maybe the priests were giving their charges a glimpse of the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. An object lesson in pain and horror. Hypocrites.


J Caldwell   March 31st, 2010 12:36 am ET

@Jack Thank you for your kind comment. If you will look at my initial comments , you will see that I am a victim of a priest's sexual abuse, late at night , when I was 3 years old while he was baby sitting us.

I do understand.

I have simply learned, through suffering, that I can choose to live in my pain or offer it up for others who are suffering worse than I. I went through therapy, kept my faith and practice in Church and discovered that forgiveness was the best way to resolve it –for now in this lifetime. Holding resentment would only make me ill with resultant diseases of arthritis, etc.

I have been a registered nurse for over 30 years serving others in all types of situations and offering hope for healing/recovery. I have made a conscious and willful choice to forgive due to understanding human nature. I know that God will, in the end, execute His Justice and Mercy. I am not in a position to condemn anyone– just do all I can do to offer healing and understanding to those who are in pain and suffering.

In working with those who are in the process of dying, I have seen what a lifetime of bitterness and hatred can do to someone–it is better to forgive, in my experience. To those who are Merciful, they will obtain Mercy - the Beatitude in the book of Matthew says it all.

I understand that human nature is susceptible to all sorts of weaknesses including mental illness (pedophilia). Wisdom tells me to give it to God as I am not fully aware of what causes a person to defile another in such a careless, tormenting way. It is not only priests who are committing these acts against children, as we all know. May we consider that it is a human problem that includes men and women who act out their sicknesses on others, for sometimes unknown reasons.

Grace and Peace to All of Us


LEON J. HASTINGS   March 31st, 2010 12:37 am ET

There is much to admire regarding the Catholic Church. However, it has failed to come to terms with the fact that it is, in the final analysis, a human institution and therefore is not infallible. That failure has compelled the Church to follow a path of deceit and secrecy regarding acts of sexual abuse. If it can come to terms with this crippling weakness, it will become even stronger and begin to exert a more wholesome influence on the world.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 12:40 am ET

@ John H

I don't think this is a hegemonic group of posters at all. There are many different opinions here. Some hate Catholics. Oh, big surprise. If this was about Islam or Buddhism, you'd find the very same thing. Any polarizing group is going to find opposition.

However, many have had experiences with the church for themselves. Calling all people atheists because they have the courage to openly relate their painful experiences of the church is just another example of the kind of bullying many in the church participate in.

Silence is not the answer. It is folly.


jack   March 31st, 2010 12:49 am ET

@J Caldwell...You show a lot of spiritual strength . Best wishes to you and all people of your faith.


Drew Hertel   March 31st, 2010 12:49 am ET

I'm curious. Why does the Catholic Church take so much heat from the media about sexual abuse cases when the Protestant churches have had more reports of sexual abuse? In all cases, it is sad and needs to be fixed. However, it seems that people pin this on the Catholic Church when it transcends all religions.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 12:50 am ET

@ Mona Villarrubia

They needed to have a celebrity-expert because of the sensational factor. Its not really about covering an issue. PBS is a better bet for that.


susana presa   March 31st, 2010 12:51 am ET

thank you Irene at last a prayer for all of us< and then they ask how come kids don't tell when they are been abused...I still think that it was my fault...god bless you and all victims.


Nana   March 31st, 2010 12:53 am ET

I think the administration of the Catholic Church has handled this whole issue very badly and set a very bad example for its members. I think the Pope needs to come out and admit it has happened. Paying people off with money and keeping it silent is not the answer. Arguing about what the Pope knew; what bishops knew, covered up etc. does not solve the problem. It happened. It should not have happened. I think the Pope should hold a Papal audience in America, in Ireland, wherever it has happened in such large numbers. This audience should be for all of the victims and be given a special blessing by the Pope. The harm, the pain, the damage to potentially wholesome lives, the suffering of the victims has to be acknowledged publically. Isn't this a perfect opportunity for the church to put into practice what they teach about sin, forgiveness etc.?


Dodie   March 31st, 2010 12:53 am ET

@ Jeannie

Well stated blog. Just because we are not "Practicing Catholics" does not make us Atheists! Well, maybe some of us are! lol


nice   March 31st, 2010 12:55 am ET

Enough, history is enough evidence. Please get rid of demons in the church.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 12:56 am ET

@Dodie

Some are simply agnostic – don't really question or care.... or don't wish for blessings or prayer.


Jim Olson   March 31st, 2010 12:56 am ET

Mr. King:
I was very lucky as a child because my parents told me which priests to stay away from. The pope does not accept responsibility for instutionalized child abuse. The church has lost any moral authority it once had. They continue to try their members faith.


umayr k   March 31st, 2010 12:59 am ET

Pope should be brought to justice and be charged for child abuse, if not direct crime, being an accomplice to one to many.... no excuses even if he's the Pope...


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:00 am ET

Larry please look up "Bella Dodd" in case you do not know yet who she is. Being a catholic I believe scandals can happen, but also it is the case, again, that people's tragedy is misused to achieve an evil goal of the anti-Catholics. We should also look close to the words used in the music of the invited singer and find out if youngsters get encouraged to do the right things in life. To the gentleman who claims to be a victim as a teenager I would like to know if his parents never told him not to get involved in sexual acts…

True that the Catholic Church is not perfect and maybe never will be. But the world outside the Catholic Church is even more disgusting, or not? Let us start throwing a look at sports…..think think think


Deborah   March 31st, 2010 1:03 am ET

Well, I'm back. I "linked" up with this site, and now am getting a "gazillion" (as my children would say) emails every second! Oops! How to I UN-subscribe from this? I just want to add a comment now and then, AND read through others comments, also now and then. Help! Thanks everyone. 🙂


Alan   March 31st, 2010 1:04 am ET

Thank goodness for Bill Donohue on tonight's program. There were so many things being thrown around but Donohue spouted facts. The interview tonight seemed badly handled and definitely "shaded".


Drew Hertel   March 31st, 2010 1:04 am ET

In the end, I think this is all good for the Church. At best, it will bring justice to those that have done wrong. At worst, it will rid the Church of some dead wood Catholics that have neither guts nor spine. They can go join the Protestants, yet people forget the they have a bigger problem than the Catholic Church with sexual abuse. Why isn't CNN covering them?


Dodie   March 31st, 2010 1:05 am ET

@ Jeannie C.

I suspect we are just a mixture... a cross between a poodle and a black lab! Just your typical group sample!


Patricia Nazaroff   March 31st, 2010 1:07 am ET

All one has to do is check out the history of the catholic church, to see the whole structure is rotten to the core. This scandal pales in comparison to the abuse of nuns, "I leap over the wall" written by a nun, who was hounded and shadowed by the jesuits.

if the church had actually followed Jesus Christ, as they claimed, they would never have removed God's name from their liturgy and now the Bible. nor would they have disregarded any scripture that didn't uphold their desires, one of which is homosexuality, and is dealt with in 1 corinthians 6:9, and the same warning against homosexuality is found in the book of leviticus, as regards the garments to be worn by men and women, to distinguish themselves from deviants.

Take a few minutes to read Leviticus. those principals never changed. times change, people not too much.
thanks for letting me express my opinion. i will be happy to see the catholic church go down. They don't deserve another chance. They do not represent the loving God I know, and all of us can by reading his word, the Bible, without blinders on. Pat Nazaroff, a Bible student who never accepted dogma


Stephen Normand   March 31st, 2010 1:08 am ET

Jack
I do not know why the nuns acted like this but I can tell you they lived in a community and were prayerful and taught well but their need to keep discipline through physical abuse of pain and hurt that even my own parents never administered says they had a real problem within their own spirituality and discipline...what was going on in their convent I do not know...but surely it is plain to see they had seething anger within themselves which was taken out on us and that was not right and it went on for years..it was wrong sadistical and sick which still has an affect on this grown man over 50 years later...I have no regrets for speaking out at last...it feels right and good.


Ariel Viera   March 31st, 2010 1:10 am ET

This is another example of the church breakdown and falling apart on its own weight and blatant falseness and superficiality. The catholic church has a long list of enormous grievances and vicious crimes against humanity and the individual itself throughout history.


Alan   March 31st, 2010 1:10 am ET

In France there is a criminal offence called 'not assisiting a person in danger'. Perhaps he could be charged with multiple counts of this?


Ken   March 31st, 2010 1:11 am ET

Let mebe brief, or so I hope to be. First of all, I'm not Catholic...thank God!!! From what I understand, priests cannot get married. Why? Supposedly it is because they are suppose to be married to God. Well, if they were, then they would have no time to abuse these young children. It is my belief that these guys go into the priesthood because they are in fact gay / homosexual and find that they have many opportunities to abuse these young boys. So they throw there status, power and position around to take advantage of these young people. To add insult to injury, the Catholic church tries to cover up this scandal. No wonder a church where they worship a man called a pope who, I guess, is suppose to be "God on Earth." The last time I checked, the only God on Earth was a man named Jesus. Who is this pope person that appears to have so much power to do what he pleases? Personally, I'm not moved. When will these Catholic people wake up and get a clue? What I really find sad is that they are saying that the only one who can remove the pope from office is God Himself. Who is this pope that he has so much power? Is he not a man? If you cut him, will he not bleed? So, who is he that he is "Above the Law" and cannot be prosecuted to full extent of the law. If I were the one doing these things, then I know that I would be in jail. Can someone help me get a clue cause I'm lost?


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:11 am ET

I would like to bring something forward to make you people think a bit:

Do you remember humiliatng your own kid? Do you remember leaving your kid "somewhere" or alone at home so you can make some money? Do you remember ignoring your kid to spend time with your own friends? Do you remember not buying your kid something just so you can pamper yourself with earthly goods? SEX is a famous words that describes a tiny fraction of the human life but that can be as devastating as the previous mentioned... A priest is a "stranger" but you are the parents.


Drew Hertel   March 31st, 2010 1:14 am ET

Since nobody wants to answer my question, I'll let you all go by saying that I LOVE my Catholic faith and am proud to be Catholic. Some of my parish priests have been some the best role models throughout my life. It is a disgrace that people blame the whole Church because of a few bad people. Every religion has its bad apples. To all my fellow Catholics out there, stay strong. Psalm 37


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:17 am ET

If this world is like this while having the Catholic Church, what devastation would it have been without....maybe there would have been pyramids all over the world and us all working as slaves being abused in whatever way without any help....


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:20 am ET

Yes Drew! Don't worry please. We will remain together as Catholics, one big family all over the world. Lets be strong with Jesus Christ.


mcmargie   March 31st, 2010 1:21 am ET

Pope Benedict and the U.S. Catholic Bishops are deeply concerned for those who have been harmed by sexual abuse. The Pope has strengthened the Church´s response to victims and has been dealing with the perpetrators.

In the U.S. the Catholic Church has intensified their efforts to provide safe environments for children within the parishes and schools. They are also working with others in the communities to address the prevalence of sexual abuse in the larger society as well.

Have you all forgot when the pope visited the U.S. in 2008 and met with the victims and consoled them?

Being Catholic myself, I've witnessed the Catholic church which has spent millions on preventing further sex abuse. They created the "Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People", which calls the clergy to respond with compassion to victims and survivors, to work diligently to screen those working with children and young people in the Church, to provide child abuse awareness and prevention education, to report suspected abuse to civil law enforcement, and to account for our efforts to protect children and youth through an external annual national audit.

There are not a lot of sex abusers in the Catholic Church as gossip would have you believe. There are a lot of wonderful priests. Sex abusers are in the schools, other religions, teachers, strangers, neighbors, doctors and even family members.

With all the negative and ugly comments posted on this blog it is easy to have selective memory isn't it? How convienent it is to forget that the Catholic Church does a lot of volunteer work and spends an enormous amount of money giving help to the poor, needy, disabled, elderly, sick...I can go on and on.

Need I remind you that Jesus said to forgive.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:30 am ET

Something that we need to take into consideration too is the following: taking into consideration that the human nature, un-controlled, tends to react in an evil way against evil, it is to be wondered if the victims did victimize others......


mcmargie   March 31st, 2010 1:41 am ET

I find it sad that I've read here that there are "former" Catholics. No matter what happens I will always stay strong as a member of the Catholic Church. The most important thing to remember is that you are going to Church to celebrate Mass and receive Holy Communion...which is the body and blood of Christ. It is not a symbol the to Catholic's, it is the real body and blood of Christ. If you have any doubts, "google" Eucharistic Miracles. That is the most important piece of the doctrine. It boggles my mind how any Catholic could turn against the religion if they truly understand the depth of receiving the body and blood of Christ during Mass. That's what it's all about!


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 1:44 am ET

@ Dodie
I do not believe that "celibacy" is the culprit . If it were then John
McCain will be sex pervert. ( He was a pow). He was a prisoner
of the Vietcong soldiers for so many years without having sex
that he should have come out crazy" He is a bad politician but
he appears to be a man of good character. There are a lot
of people who went to war for a decade without coming back
home, or without having sexual contact with a woman. They
came to lead normal lives. Prisoners who have been in jail
for more than 10 years come back to society to lead normal
lives. It is not celibacy. I know people that never got married
and never had an intimate sexual affair. They died after 60
Nobody ever had anything bad to say about my Godfather.
He was eighty when he died. Nobody ever uttered a bad word
about him. He never had any sexual contact with men or women.
You must know somebody (man or woman) like that in your
community. They not are deviates. They are great people.
You may ask yourself, or ask your friends: " How come Mary
never got married. She is already 60 years old." and it is not
because she is ugly, obese, or has a bad personality. She is
not a nun and she is not shy because she cracks diryt jokes
with us. But she never to married. She is not a lesbian and she
loves children like if they were here children. "She is pretty and
her flesh is going to wasting"(like the song goes) but she never
got married. Ok. I hope that this rambling convinced you or
gave you an argument about the myth of celibacy. That woman
that lived in the wild with gorillas "Gorillas in the mist," the African
man like beast for more 20 years without having sex.
( Unless you have evidence to support an accusation that
she molested underage gorillas- the celibacy hypothesis is
out the windown and out the door-lol as the culprit for sex
child abuse by pedophiles. Punto( period and out).


alyx saiz   March 31st, 2010 1:45 am ET

I come from a catholic backgroud and I am almost ashamed to admit that. I have two children who are baptized catholic as well and it was mainly due to family tradition I don't attend church and its basically because of thee sex scandals. I am a younger lady and will admit iv never watched larry kings show until today and it just so happened they showed talked about the catholic churches and I do believe they are hiding things we know and don't know. I watched a documentary just the other night called deliver us from evil and its about a priest in california and he admits to having sex with a nine month old baby and as well as molesting hundredsof other childern and he got deported back to ireland after only serving a 14yr sentence in the states and this happened long ago I'm sure the pope has had this on his desk for a decades its obvious we need to be rebuilt because for someone who's going to go onto larrys show and defend the pope but basically call a victim gay because he was at an age of puberty is wrong now I'm sure the pope will cover up the molestations but I don't think he would basically say you had it coming because no innocent child or human being has rape or molestation coming to them. I think they need a new pope obviosly because after hearing his family has a history of that I don't think its right for him to even be considered the holy one. Priest need to be allowed to marry I believe then maybe our kids won't be prey for some prediators. Church is supposed to be an honestplace where we go when in crisis, for hope, piece of mind and for our communities not so the ppriest can take advantage of the family if the if the church is willing to get more up to date basically more 2010 instead of what day in age they want to live in then there won't be scandals and then we can finally have the church our grandparents are so proud of.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 1:51 am ET

@Dodie

You made me laugh tonite regarding the mixed poodles – thank you! What a depressing subject.

Poor Jesus – being dragged through the mud of all these male-centric institutions. What did he ever do to deserve this?! Jesus is too busy in the slums of the world to give one big fig about the privileged throne sitters and their reputations.


Michael   March 31st, 2010 1:55 am ET

Disputed fact? I like to read John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Amanda   March 31st, 2010 1:56 am ET

I was completely appalled by the remark that cutting down on the number of homosexuals in the church will decrease instances of molestation, and that perpetrators of abuse allegations would be characterized as homosexuals (as opposed to pedophiles because the alleged victims were post-pubescent). This panelist's remarks betray that he does not understand molestation and rape. The abuse has far more to do with POWER, and less to do with sexual orientation. A priest knows that he is in a position of power and is a trusted and holy figure in the eyes of the congregation. It is so confusing and frightening to the victim (whatever his age) when he is abused by someone of this stature, especially in religion, because the thought of coming forward may seem to some as slanderous and even sacrilege. Though the abuse may begin as physical, it continues when the victim is too terrified to come forward, which in turn continues to re-enforce the feeling of power in the abuser. The irreparable harm that ensues from this high-caliber breach in trust never completely dissipates and is not limited to victim of abuse.

This theory that molestation or sexual abuse stems from homosexuality is reminiscent of the movement in the late 1970s of trying to fire homosexual teachers because they would corrupt and abuse their students. In actuality, homosexuals are no more inclined to molest than heterosexuals. It is an egregious error in judgment to think that the root of molestation in the Catholic Church is tied to sexual orientation. That course of action, if followed, may assuage the Church's guilt and be used by Catholics to demonstrate the damage of committing the sin of being homosexual, but it will not diminish the number of future victims or provide any consolation to a life suffering in silence. This panelist needs to understand that these kids, not the Catholic Church, are the victims in this situation. Neither he nor the public know the comprehensive details of who knows what and how much is known and how high it goes. As for the Vatican and the Catholic Church – admitting mistakes shows more strength, courage, and honor (not to mention respect to the victims and alleged victims) than dismissing these very serious and disturbing allegations as "petty gossip".


jack   March 31st, 2010 1:57 am ET

Seeing how Mr. Donahue is so good at lying , shifting the blame and rationalizing the wrong doings of those he wishes to protect; is it any wonder that children faced with abuse are intimidated by authority figures who try to convince them they never had the experiences or that they will burn in hell for eternity, if they tell the vile secrets?


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 2:03 am ET

@Luis B Rosario

I think you are probably right about the celibacy thing as not being the cause. And it is also not about being gay, either.

People who hurt children, enjoy hurting children in many cases. Many of them have been victims themselves. They are not curable and they should be identified and separated somehow from society where they will never hurt children again.

I also think Mothers (I am one myself) should never entrust their children in the care of men – period. 90% of men may be saints, but it only takes the 10% to destroy our children.


Sarah   March 31st, 2010 2:10 am ET

The Pope should stand up and admit his guilt if he knew of all these disgusting things going on. He should not hide behind his so called sanctions. The Catholic Church wonders why they loose so many of their followers. I have been a Catholic for over 60 years and so many of the rules have changed. Fasting before communion, touching the sacred host, etc...... The Pope is to represent God. When Our Lord was accused of crimes, he did not run and hide. He faced His accusers. This is what the Pope should do. If he was wrong, then he needs to step down as our leader. He should have seen that these so-called priests were sent to prison and punished for their crimes, not send them off to another parish to do more of the same. THE POPE NEEDS TO STEP UP AND FACE HIS ACCUSERS AND TELL THE TRUTH ONCE AND FOR ALL, STOP HIDING!!!!!


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 2:14 am ET

I also have to say – because it makes me boiling mad – that using terms like "getting rid of dead wood", "atheist" or Haters of the Catholic church is offensive to all those who actually DO HAVE FAITH. They have faith in Christ despite the church and its evil doers. These are the very people that took away the dignity of Christ, not the other way around.

And those who have been victims, keep speaking!! Keep speaking until they listen.


jack   March 31st, 2010 2:15 am ET

While I don't happen to be gay, I can understand the anger of those responding to Mr. Donahue's declaring the priests as being homosexual. A pedophile who attacks younger children is probably neither particulary straight or gay. He is a pedophile , a different animal altogether. Maybe they can't help their orientation, but getting into the priesthood and then preying on helpless little children is not a good career choice. Hiding behind Catholic vestments while performing outrages on children is the height of evil. They need help with their sickness. But, if they rape children some jail time , at hard labor , would be quite fitting.


Associate   March 31st, 2010 2:29 am ET

Larry, must you have BILL DONOHUE on your show? My God, such diarrhea of the mouth on his part. Donohue's presence there tonight on the "Pope and complicity" segment totally ruined your show. GET THIS GUY OFF CNN PERMANENTLY!!!


Associate   March 31st, 2010 2:36 am ET

Larry, must you have BILL DONOHUE on your show? My God, such diarrhea of the mouth on his part. Donohue's presence there tonight on the "Pope and complicity" segment totally ruined your show. GET THIS GUY OFF CNN PERMANENTLY!!! Then, to make it worse, every time BILL spewed out his venom, Sinead changed her mind. What's with this woman? She has a story to tell but changes with the wind every time Donohue presents his usual spurious attacks on ANYTHING but his precious pope. I hope that members of "The Catholic League" wise up and drop out! Send Donohue and Sinead to a Tea Party and get some real guests that can carry on a decent conversation. IS EVERYONE AFRAID OF THE DAMN POPE???


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 2:38 am ET

@A. Smith-Oregon
@ Jack
I now people go out of their way to attack the Catholic church
Islam(which also also honor Jesus Christ as the "savior,"
with accusations and allegations, many of which are
substantiated and many of which are propaganda, innuendo
hatred and persecution of the church's foundation. Every
institution is not infallible. Every pillar of any foundation can
crack or break under the proper circumstances. The entire
church cannot be condemned because a priest sexually
abuse 200 children. Someone was saying: " well if one
priest abuse 200 children multiply that by 4,100 priest in the
the United States equals 800,000 children sexually abused.
Isn't that an stupid, morbid assumption. If the moon is
yellow -then is must be made out of cheese" it sounds poetic
but we found out that the moon is as romantidc as we thought.
( Still writers and composers keep writing sweet things
about the moon). It is just pure speculation.
Of course the Cathollc church has been rocked by this
and other scandals. And you will say " these people never
learn. Burn the down the church and its occupants." Do
you know many priests are working for the church? How
many of those are accused of high crimes including sex
child abuse? Don't give these false and invented statistics.
Either you know and you factual information that the Catholic
church is worst than any other church regarding sex child
abuse, indluding the countries where men and women
are allow to marry children under 15 years old: including
China, India, Russia, Iran, Vietnam, including countries
where young women as young as 12 years od are allowed
to have sex with other adults,or with other children their
own age, or 3 years older ( is legal in many countries)
including the United States of America. In the United States,
many states statutory rape has a difference of 3 to 5 years
of age in consensual sex with minors. Am I wrong?
:ately because of internet publicity and CNN and other media,
these states have been updating their law enforcement
of sexual misconduct and rape. South America, Sto Domingo,
Haiti, France, Africa. Somebody wrote a blog about the
churches that had rampant sex child abuse but you have
only tunnel vision. (the scape mentality). Other professions
including teachers and police have had their foundations
rocked by sex scandals involving children. It is not an isolated,
centralized phenomena. It is widespread among different
strata, race and religion. The numbers are there to justify
panic and concern but the numbers don't say that it is a
crime that it is worse than other heinous crimes. Take for
example the death of millions in Somalia, Darfur, Indonessia,
Gongo, Africa, Ethiopia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Haiti, South America
Serbia and other countries where women, and children
(including boys ) were raped and killed and burried in mass
graves.
The Catholic church throught the world employs many
thousand priests. Although they were sworn in to uphold the
Christian law and Man's laws, these people come from the
same geographical area that we (other humans) come from.
There will be bad people in every profession. Real bad
people: Killers, rapists, suicide bombers, and other hard core
criminals. it is great that we have access to the internet and
to international media " on the fly" (instant news). It is great
to educate the public about the dangers that heinous crimes
pose not only to children, but to women and the elderly but
we cannot enlist a posse to lynch every priest including the
Pope for crimes committed by church employees, or church
members, unless we have concrete evidence, beyond
reasonable doubt that corroborate the fact the pedophile
clan is a breed of the church and not a breed of society.
This is my opinion. I may some erros but I hope that you
know what I mean.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 2:48 am ET

Pope Ratz slithers under the rocks of denial and diplomatic immunity!

In court documents this Tuesday, the Pope's attorneys are filing a defense in their callous attempt to prevent Pope Ratz from being questioned under oath what he knew about serial pedophile clerics who raped and sodomized hundreds of children in the care of the church.

Pope Ratz's defense team has issued three elements of defense in a ongoing child rape case in Kentucky in Pope Ratz's attempts to avoid being questioned under oath about what he knew and what he did about serial child pedophiles in the Vatican and in parishes around the world.

1) Claiming Pope Ratz is immune from criminal charges as head of state, although that certainly didn't protect Manual Noriega former president of Panama on far lesser crimes.

2) The ridiculous claim that Pope Ratz is not the boss of those serial pedophile clerics and clerics of the church are not employees of the Vatican. This is apparently a clear attempt to dodge monetary settlements against Pope Ratz and the Vatican itself.

3) A claim attempting to dispute that a 1962 Vatican document obtained by a Oregon attorney representing hundreds of children raped in Oregon by Vatican clergy which appears to clearly describe the direct role of the Vatican knowing and moving pedophiles to other unsuspecting parishes where the pedophiles committed multiple new cases of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse on new child victims.

Three men claiming they were abused by priests brought the suit against the Holy See in 2004, accusing Rome of negligence in failing to alert police or the public about priests who molested children in Kentucky.

This case is significant because it's the first among a handful of cases targeting Rome from the US Courts to reach the stage of determining whether the victims actually have a claim against the Vatican and Pope Ratz himself.

Previous cases attempting to implicate the Vatican have failed or are pending at more preliminary stages. It appears after Pope Ratz appealed for help to Secretary Condie Rice, that Bush jr. blocked the Dept. of US Justice from allowing those filed cases to include Pope Ratz and The Vatican as defendants. Thankfully for the thousands of child victims, the horrific administration of Bush-Cheney is no longer in office.

In the Kentucky suit, the men argued that U.S. diocesan bishops were employees of the Holy See, and that Rome was therefore responsible for their alleged wrongdoing in failing to report abuse.

They charged that a 1962 Vatican document mandated that bishops not report sex abuse cases to police. The Vatican has argued that there is nothing in the document that precluded bishops from reporting pedophiles to police.

Cardinal Ratz prior to becoming Pope Ratz held the office for many years that was alerted to allegations of pedophilia with the Vatican's clergy members AND would have been ONE of the very few individuals that was with the Pope paying Hundreds of Millions of Vatican dollars to hush and silent child victims and the familys of the victims.

A document purported to be from then Cardinal Ratz also threatens excommunication (church blackmail) against any clergy that speaks out publicly about alleged Vatican clergy sexual abuses on parishioners, has been widely read and sent out in vast numbers to Vatican clergy as part of its stonewalling and hush campaign.

Cardinal Ratz, now Pope Ratz aiding and abiding serial child sex offenders to shield them from the police, US Courts and MOVE them to another location where those serial child sex offender went on to rape, sodomize and sexually abuse hundreds of more innocent unsuspecting child victims would normally be a LIFE IN PRISON offense.

Pope Ratz is not above the laws in America, UK, Europe nor anywhere else that he appears to have shielded clerics that have been later found by US, UK and European Courts to have been serial pedophiles, and moved those horrific criminals to new parishes upon unsuspecting children who were themselves RAPED and SODOMIZED!

Pope Ratz should resign.

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages.

Courts around the world should hold Pope Ratz and the Vatican responsible for their actions in aiding and abiding these serial criminals whose aid and support DIRECTLY led to the continued RAPE and SODOMY of new child victims in care of the church.

Catholics look to Pope Ratz as the apostolic succession of Jesus Christ. They bow to Pope Ratz, kiss his hands, kiss his huge golden elaborate rings and pray to him as God in the flesh.

Pope Ratz ordered his Church Parishes in America to file Bankruptcy rather than Pay the US COURT ORDERED monetary settlements to the thousands of children the Vatican clergy raped and sodomized.

Does that sound like a decent man, much less anyone with ethical and moralistic standards YOU admire?

The order to bypass US Court ordered monetary settlements is a cold hearted and utterly disgusting signal that Pope Ratz does not care one iota about the thousands of sexually abused children and he cares completely about the Vatican's wealth and plunder.

I can think of NO WORSE example of a religious leader.

Pope Ratz is a utterly disgusting religious father-head who has not even a grain of the spirit of Jesus Christ running in his body.

Pope Ratz should RESIGN

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages and shunned by the civilized world.


jack   March 31st, 2010 2:56 am ET

@ Luis B Rosario...I never gave any statistics and I certainly would not advocate burning any church down , much less with it's occupants. What I advocated was that people walk out of a failed corrupt institution, and stop supporting it. I have never called for violence against anyone, much less a lynching. If you are putting words in my mouth, it will not work. If those are your thoughts , identify them as such. I will stand behind the opinions I submitted and none of them called for violence. I am very peaceable. The biggest thing I asked for was accountability ,and treatment and arrests for repeat pedophile rapists hiding behind their office of priest . If that offends you, so be it .


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 3:04 am ET

@ Luis B Rosario, its refreshing to read that you are less in denial now with the wealth of sexual abuse information and rape and sodomy victim after victim coming forward for you to hear and consider.

If a religious figure-head such as Pope Ratz is CORRUPT then the very head of that organization is corrupt. The very foundation of the Catholic Religion is the dogma of the Pope is the apostolic succession of Jesus Christ himself in the flesh.

Pope Ratz ordered his Church Parishes in America to file Bankruptcy rather than Pay the US COURT ORDERED monetary settlements to the thousands of children the Vatican clergy raped and sodomized.

Does that sound like a decent man, much less anyone with ethical and moralistic standards YOU admire?

The order to bypass US Court ordered monetary settlements is a cold hearted and utterly disgusting signal that Pope Ratz does not care one iota about the thousands of sexually abused children and he cares completely about the Vatican's wealth and plunder.

Pope Ratz is a utterly disgusting religious father-head who has not even a grain of the spirit of Jesus Christ running in his body.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 3:08 am ET

It is absolutely correct the statement about not convicting "unless we have concrete evidence," – but people are not listening to those who have been hurt and betrayed. Victims try to address and bring forward the evidence but are met with skepticism, ridicule and false accusations themselves. They were the ones who were betrayed . Not the priests.

It is also very true that the Catholic faith is in itself, a positive addition to the sea of humanity in which we find ourselves. And so are the additions of the Buddhist, Islamic, Hindu and Jewish faiths, etc....

Yet, every one of those religions at various points of our own history, have become corrupted as well.

It is the church's loss in its own faith that makes priests corrupt and pervert their power. It is not the flocks fault.


jack   March 31st, 2010 3:13 am ET

@Luis B Rosario...You seem to be the one playing with numbers. So what if some countries have a lower age of consent. Most reasonable people will agree that 12 year olds are too young for adults to eploit sexually. That argument does not hold water. These people charged with being pedophiles exploit youngsters repeatedly, and to the children's detriment. Do not try to justify child rape with lame arguments that the organization was so large they could not have had oversight of those at lower levels. It is a very structured hierarchy, and as far as I am concerned, the buck stops with the Pope, the guy on the throne with the fancy dress and the funny hat. Do I hate them? No. But I think they should come clean.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 3:36 am ET

The Pope's older brother Georg Ratz has apparently now confessed about his actions regarding sexual abuse of children in the Vatican's choir in Germany over a many year duration.

It appears the ONLY reason why the Vatican College of Cardinals elected Cardinal Ratz to become the next Pope was to insure that Pope Ratz would not interfere nor shut down various nefarious dark branches within the Vatican that are likely heavily involved with Money Laundering, Drug Smuggling and Child Slavery-Trafficking.

The other Vatican Cardinals held Cardinal Ratz's past misdeeds over his head as a unspoken threat if Pope Ratz were to move to cleaning up the corruption in the Vatican branches as John Paul I had tried and failed which ended with his death/murder after 30 days in office on September 29, 1978.

It appears the College of Cardinals made certain they would not elect another John Paul I who would have worked long and hard to eliminate the wide spread corruption in the Vatican.

It appears shortly after September 29, 1978 hundreds of Millions of dollars was missing from the Vatican Bank and a huge cover-up followed along with the death of the Vatican banker and a likely case of money laundering that would have been exposed and stopped by the dead/murdered John Paul I.


Rose   March 31st, 2010 3:44 am ET

Sorry ....by My ..tiếng Việt...
Đây không phải là lần đầu tiên..xảy ra tình trạng...những con quỷ râu xanh đội lốt...áo nhà tu...để làm ra những chuyện ...suy đồi đạo đức...thế giới bây giờ ...đang ở ngưỡng cửa..bị tàn phá...từ môi trường thiên nhiên...cho đến...môi trường xã hội. theo tôi...tôi đã từng có cảm giác...không còn chỗ nào an toàn...từ những nơi mà tôi đã từng đặt hết sự tin tưởng,,và chính tôi cũng từng cộng tác..để rồi bây giờ ..tôi đã ...CAY ĐẮNG NHẬN THẤY RẰNG...càng những chỗ như trường học..hay những gì thuộc về tôn giáo...thì...CÀNG LÀ MÔI TRƯỜNG TỐT...THUẬN TIÊN CHO TỘI ÁC... VÀ CÓ THỂ DUNG TÚNG TỘI ÁC.. LÀ...MỘT CHỖ ..AN TOÀN CHO TỘI ÁC NHIỀU HƠN CHO NGƯỜI ...VÔ TỘI.....VÌ ÍT CÓ AI NGHI NGỜ...HAY CHÚ Ý...
..Qua kinh nghiệm ...cá nhân tôi...tôi đã bị..THẤT VỌNG...HOÀN TOÀN MẤT NIỀM TIN TÔN GIÁO TRONG TÔI....nhưng ..tôi ..VẪN TIN CÓ THƯỢNG ĐẾ...vẫn tin có một đấng ..TỐI CAO...NGỰ TRỊ TRÊN CAO...mà ai cũng phải ..có lần tới phiên mình đối diện...


no longer catholic   March 31st, 2010 3:49 am ET

I am a 35 year old catholic. The Pope and the Vatican need to own their faults. Look at the Pope's eyes, he is the devil on earth. The Vatican built wealth on greed, and finally the world is calling them on it. The Pope is evil and the Catholic Church is evil. I dont wish evil upon anyone, but the Roman Catholic Church deserves to fail with no help from the public. Again I say look at Pope Benedicts eyes, he is evil.


Denise   March 31st, 2010 3:51 am ET

Almost a victim:

I was a maid at a Jesuit Retreat house in the 70's.....one night one of the priests had too much to drink and wanted me to "go to confession with him, right now". Fortunately, I was raised as a protestant, although my Mom is French Catholic and was the administrative assistant at the retreat house. I was 16 years old, and was washing dishes in the kitchen when this drunk priest approached me. I told him"listen, buddy, I'm protestant, and if you come any closer to me, I will scald with you this hot water (the industrial spray attached to our mini dishwasher). He persisted, and it made me mad that he thought I would "go to confession" with him , a pathetic,drunk, unattractive, distgusting man. I held my ground, and he went away. I was about ready to pick up a knife and get him away from me. He was a creep. When I got home, my parents asked me "how was work" – when I told them what happened, I saw the blood drain from my protestant father
s face. The next day, the priest was escorted off the property. I wonder how many women he had "taken to confession" who had not resisted.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 3:58 am ET

What these evil men did is not worth the life of their innocent victims. It is the men and women who were betrayed that deserve the dignity of their truths being heard without judgment and with the compassion that Christ would demand.

For anyone suffering, please reach out, people do care and are willing to listen. You are not alone even if it feels that way. It is possible to rebuild and you are not to fault.


Peter power   March 31st, 2010 4:01 am ET

Who is that idiot on the show who was saying "show me the evidence of church abuse" or of knowledge of wrongdoing by the pope? I looked up Pope Benedict on Wikipedia, and saw that " In 1981, he settled in Rome when he became Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, one of the most important offices of the Roman Curia. At the time of his election as Pope, he was also Dean of the College of Cardinals, and as such the primus inter pares among the cardinals." In Newfoundland Canada in 1998 the Mount Cashel Orphanage was discovered to have been a site where the Christian Brothers order of the Catholic church molested a large number of boys and had gotten away with it.A number of these priests had been transferred away from the orphanage and Newfoundland when these allegations had come to light. did Benedict know about this? He most certainly should have!!! That was his job after all.


no longer catholic   March 31st, 2010 4:02 am ET

As you can see, Phil representing the church on LKL is being well paid by the church and the Vatican. Look in his eyes, money, greed, someone that is evil and only worthy of public persecution. Phil stop defending evil acts and a Pope that supports sexual abuse. You need to be in jail with the rest of them.


MoreLight   March 31st, 2010 4:27 am ET

If William Donohue of the Catholic League were to bite me, would I get rabies?


Kenn Chaplin   March 31st, 2010 4:41 am ET

Other than an uncanny ability to throw verbal gasoline on a TV panel's fire, I fail to see why Mr. Donahue is getting so much face time on this issue. He's a pompous, disruptive loud-mouth who brings nothing constructive to the discussions I've seen him in.

To equate priest-boy sexual abuse with homosexuality is so preposterous. Abuse is abuse. Sexual orientation or sexuality in general have nothing to do with sexual violence by people in positions of authority. Donahue is the know-it-all down the street from June and Ward Cleaver.

Larry King and his producers should keep him off the air. There are many more serious, qualified guests who could be called upon.


KORNELIA KORONETZ   March 31st, 2010 5:27 am ET

MR. DONAHUE SHOULD KNOW BETTER:

1. WHEN BENEDICT WAS STILL RATZINGER AND IN CHARGE FOR THE UPCOMING SEX-SCANDALS OF THE U.S. CHURCH, HE WROTE AN OFFFICIAL DOKUMENT.
IT SAYS:
EVERYTHING HAS TO BE REPORTED TO THE VATICAN – VATICAN ONLY.
2. BEEING "THROWN OUT" OF THE CHURCH, LIKE DONAHUE REPORTED, IS ONLY THE CASE IF THERE IS GIVEN ABSOLUTION (!) FOR A PRIEST- MOLESTOR FROM ANOTHER PRIEST,

PLEASE CHCK. MANY CASES IN GERMANY PROVE MEANWHILE, THAT BENEDIKT WAS AND IS INVOLVED=INFORMED OVER ALL THOSE YEARS, SINCE HE WAS THE ONE TO HAVE BEEN PUT IN CHARGE FROM THE FORMER POPE.

IN THE LAST PALM-SUNDAY PREACH HE EVEN SAID, PLEASE SURCH NYT FOR THE ACCURATE QUOTE:
JESUS LEAD US THE WAY NOT TO BE INTIMIDATED MY BAD-PEOPLE-TALK.

P.S. WHY DO YOU ONLY GIVE US PODCAST-ONLY-FOLKS JUST BITS AND PIECES???

FROM NICE (NOW), KORNELIA KORONETZ


KORNELIA KORONETZ   March 31st, 2010 5:32 am ET

Request to CNN:
Could you please factcheck that?
THAT would explain a lot...
Quote:
Carmen Frost March 30th, 2010 9:34 pm ET

Why is it so easy for priests to abuse children?

Because The Vatican decided to make the legal age of consent 12 years of age...

They need to raise the age of consent to 18 so that families can prosecute priests who abuse their children!


charlie   March 31st, 2010 5:34 am ET

Donohugue seemed to claim that this only happend in the 50's and 60's. It was still common knowledge in Ireland in the 70 and 80's when I was in close contact with my cousins there. I have no real reason to suppose that it stopped since then.


charlie   March 31st, 2010 5:36 am ET

It hardly matters what the Pope knew. The catholic church needs to do everything it can. Pope should resign and the church laws should mirror common law where concealing such crimes is a crime.


charlie   March 31st, 2010 5:40 am ET

How can anyone praise Ratzinger for making the "strictest rules": regarding this? The catholic church get to make it's own laws outside of the vatican.. There are laws in place already.


charlie   March 31st, 2010 5:46 am ET

It is appalling that "moving towards zero toleranace": should be seen as worthy of praise..


Viviana - Italian nationality   March 31st, 2010 5:53 am ET

The current Pope is handling the situation just as it has always been done by the Church: no comment unless there is no other way to get out of it!!
It is not really relevant whether the Pope knew about the abuses or not, it is still his responsibility as head of the Church to take actions against those who did it and prosecute actively the priests responsible and those who knew but kept quiet.
According to me, resignation would not solve the problem and not mean much, ther next Pope may be even worse in this respect!!
It is all coming too late in any case but there is the hope that if something is done at least now, it will prevent such crimes from happening again.
It is extremely sinificant that this huge scandal is coming out in the open at the time of Easter and the Pope and the entire Church should take the opportunity to publicly repent and ask for forgiveness from God, from the victims and the society.


mimi from Germany   March 31st, 2010 5:56 am ET

It´s a shame all this is happening to the Church. I feel very sorry for those abused. I want to use this opportunity to say this.I have boyfriend who´s a priest and we´ve been together for seven years now,.so i think the only way to stop all these molesting issue is to discontinue the practise of Priest Celibacy. Some Priest are looking forward in getting married like the Anglicans.I think when they are allow to get married all this Sex Scandal issues will stop.


Bruce   March 31st, 2010 6:01 am ET

Think about it, for decades the Vatican and the different Pontiff's knew about the abuses in several countries around the world and just covered it up. Only after the Church was exposed and the law suits started did the Church start to acknowledge the abuse. Yes, I believe the Pope knew about it during the time he was responsible for the discipline of errant Priests. They all knew. The Vatican should come out and say the truth, that yes they knew but, at the time, decided to cover up the extent of the problem because it would cause an upheaval in the Church.


Viviana - Italian nationality   March 31st, 2010 6:06 am ET

I want to add also that of course the criminals responsible should be prosecuted by the legal system, but I do not know if that will happen, in some countries Church priests are out of bounds for the justice system. The fact is that the Vatican should not be an independent state in the first place, but that's a long story....


Jean   March 31st, 2010 6:22 am ET

To: Smith A., Oregon

It is Lent and the Catholic Church is nearing the end of Lent, culminating into Easter Sunday, the Resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The scorge, the persecution and harassment at this time should be expected when Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered and died for us on the Cross that we might live in His Heavenly, Eternal Kingdom of Glorious Bliss, if we have obeyed His (our) Heavenly Father's commands.
Heaven is opened to only those who recognize God, who worship Him, who pray to Him, not only for themselves but for others, for the entire world, the holy and pure of heart who also perform good deeds in Jesus Name, all for the love of Him and neighbor. Everyone is our neighbor, wherever we may reside, work and travel. God knows what is imbedded in our hearts, what we say and our actions. He cannot be deceived. The eyes of Jesus are on every footstep we take and on every word we state also through our fingers on the computer keyboard.
Our Lord said, the insults, hatred, etc. of those who do fall on Me. Whatsoever you do to the least of these you do to Me. Do unto others as you have them do unto you. This is the law and the prophets." These are in Holy Scriptures. Therefore, guard your words and what comes out through your fingers on the keyboard for you will be judged accordingly.
You have written approximately 4 times or more on Larry's Blog, too many. I am unable to comprehend that you were allowed this many times; give other people a chance to comment as well. It appears as some other Blogers you have a hatred for the Catholic Church and the Pope who have done you nothing wrong.
The Catholic Church was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ when He said: "Thou art Peter and upon this Rock I will build My Church and "the gates of hell 'shall not prevail against it' for I am with you always even until the consummation of the world." These are the words of Our Lord to Only One Church and it is the Catholic Church whom He gave the mandate to when He sent His Only Son that whoever believes in Him might be saved. Satan, the detractor and destroyer of souls for his eternal cauldron of everlasting fire knows this too well, much more than those who are specifically not of the Catholic Faith and who lack mortal and spiritual enlightenment and who do not think beyond by putting on their thinking cap. God gave everyone a basic common sense. Therefore, use it wisely and not to persecute His Church. I realize that envy and wickedness of heart can cause them to say what they have said on the Blogs including the New York Times. Our Patient God will take care of such people in time.
I do hope that all those who lambaste the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI are godly people who practice a true faith which will enable them to live holy, happy, loving and peaceful earthly lives and to obtain eternal salvation. If you are not, you better be for before you judge our Pope, "pull out the wooden speck in your eyes", the latter are teachings and words of Our Lord Jesus Christ as contained in Holy Scriptures of the New Testament.
We reside in a scandalous era and do not be blind and deaf to this. It is scandalous to be a homosexual and lesbian, and for two men and two women to marry. These are abominations to the Lord. It is scandalous to be a pedophile, child abuser, husband and wife abuser; to be a bad parent, bad employer, bad neighbor and the list goes on. Actions speak louder than words.
To all these God will mete out His fair and just recompense. I do hope your children are appropriately nurtured and that they do not go astray. God will hold you accountable if you do not lead them to Him by practicing your faith, hopefully, it is a Christian one. Our Lord Jesus Christ said: "Let the little children come to Me and do not prevent them for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."
He also said: "Humble yourself before God. Unless you become like little children you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Our Lord Jesus Christ said: "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone. And the manner in which you measure to others, it will be measured to you and two-fold. I tell you on the day of judgment every idle word that you speak, you will give an account thereof. By your words you will be acquitted. By your words you will be condemned." God is true to His promises. He does not rescind them. Everyone will pay according to their sins. Absolutely no one will be exonerated from practicing the faith and doing good, in thoughts, words and deeds.
Holy Scriptures teaches us: "Examine your conscience and see whether you are living in faith."
God is in control of His Catholic Church which He founded. No matter what befalls It, it will not fall. When we die the truth will be revealed to those who deny this.
The Pope was not chosen by giving a resume to the congregation to approve his papacy. The Pope was chosen during the Conclave, with devout prayers to The Holy Spirit. The Pope was not elected by the public. He was chosen by The Blessed Trinity.
Everyone deserves respect and to be accorded their due right and dignity. So do our Pope. Have respect for him and his position. He has done you or no one else any harm.
God has taken note of your unloving words of lack of love and compassion. Your day will come, be it that inevitable day when you will surely give an account to God for the life you lived and what you have said as imbedded in your heart, mind and thoughts. He will judge you accordingly. In the meantime as you live the allotted time which God Himself has given you, ensure that you are living in faith and you are a godly person. Otherwise, you will number among the lot of the enemies of God, as the followers and supporters of Satan and his fallen angels, atheists, agnostics, ungodly people, others who preach and teach against the existence of God, the enemy of the Catholic Church, of the Pope, of the billion of Catholics who are doing their utmost to practice their faith knowing what lies ahead of them when they die and their souls are faced with eternal judgment. They will surely obtain eternal salvation because of believing in God, practicing the faith, doing good and persevering to the end.
God bless the Pope, the great the good! Praise be to God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit, our fair and just Judge.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 6:28 am ET

@charlie

I don't know what should happen. I lost my faith in Rome years ago. I found it especially appalling the way Rome responded to the HIV crisis in Africa. I knew then I could no longer have faith in an institution that was willing to turn a blind eye on the tragic fate of so many women and children, and in turn, their communities.

The church is practicing what Barbara Wertheim Tuchman called The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam: A meditation on the historical recurrence of governments pursuing policies evidently contrary to their own interests. Focuses on Troy, the Renaissance Popes provoking Protestantism, the British losing their American colonies, and the United States in Vietnam.

The world has changed and they don't give a damn.


Akpebi Peter   March 31st, 2010 6:37 am ET

I am first in sympathy with all the victims of abuse that happened in the Catholic Church. But in the midst of all the criticisms and calls for the resignation of the Pope i implore reason above sentiments.

It is important for the proponents of the calls for the resignation to know that The Catholic Church is founded on core values, one of which is Confession and forgiveness of sins. When once a communicant sins and confesses his sins, he is given penance which it is believed that hissins are forgiven.

Being privy to confessions of an erring communicant by the Priest, or Bishop etc (as the case may be) does not make such person an accomplice.

Pity that in our world today where all issues are financially driven it does not matter the status or issues involved, when once money can be made, men are ready to trample on reason and reality for fame and fortune.

It


Marius   March 31st, 2010 6:41 am ET

I have just seen LKL. on TV. In Denmark and I must say I am disgusted with the defenders of the catholic church. they talk about abuse over the last few decades because that is all that has been revealed up until now, every other abuse case is locked away behind closed doors or destroyed. I was born and grew up in Ireland as a catholic where I heard stories about abuse in christian brother seminarys run by the catholic church back in the 60`s and these stories were a lot older but we as kids got a slap in the face or elsewhere and told to shut up talking nonsense priests and christian brothers were men of god and could do no wrong. These cases of abuse have been going on for over a thousand years, if one would only look into the accusations made at the socalled catholic reformation and how everything was covered up back then, there is not much difference as to what is going on today. physical and psycological abuse to put fear into man has been the way of the catholic church since it began. I am a christian and gave up being a catholic when I was about 16 years of age.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 6:53 am ET

@charlie

I find it especially appalling when they call "the other" the son of Satan. Apparently the abused and neglected are "the sons of Satan". Well, they are in their right to practice their magical thinking in a very real world of suffering. They can choose to ignore the pedophiles that masquerade as their holy men – they are simply liars.


Sharon   March 31st, 2010 7:08 am ET

Contrary to the spirit of Jesus' teachings, the Church has trampled on the rights of women and children for centuries, all under a cloak that protects, feeds and provides them while they do so.

Perhaps each church that houses a pedophile should be visually marked from the outside, so children stand half a chance at protecting themselves, and mothers their children.

If the Church hadn't originally been so preoccupied with worrying that that they might have to share their wealth with women....


Sharon   March 31st, 2010 7:15 am ET

The Church has mandated what women can and can't do with their own bodies; likewise with gays. WHAT ABOUT THE PRIESTS? Let priests be openly gay if they want, there's nothing wrong with it... LEAVE OUR CHILDREN ALONE.


Jeannie C.   March 31st, 2010 7:21 am ET

God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I'll say it again
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality

The dream is over
What can I say?
the Dream is Over
Yesterday
I was the Dreamweaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
and so dear friends
you'll just have to carry on
The Dream is over

John Lennon


k.m.   March 31st, 2010 7:41 am ET

I do not believe in GOD(believe in myself!).
Is there anyone who could explain to me why Cathoricism do not allow the opposite sex marriage for the priests? A SEXUAL DESIRE
is quite natural and not a sin,does exist not only for all human beings but also another animals and birds so forth. For a long time, a sexual desire is a taboo to talk among the Cathoric priests. The sexual abuses for the young boys and girls ignored by pretending not existing in Cathoricism.
Where those preists came from? From Heaven?
Are you kidding me?
No wonder "The Da Vinci Code" are the best seller!


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 8:12 am ET

How do we know that the Pope is not an abuser himself?


k.m. Japan   March 31st, 2010 8:25 am ET

P.S. Sorry about my mis-spelling.
I was born from my parents. I see there is nothing wrong about it.
It bothers me a lot is that the priests are sacred and say a double standard,(in spite of sexual abuse to the youngsters repeatedly for a long time)
They are just humans and furthermore, they also have the sexual desires!!!!
Virgin Mary did not exist and she bore the Christ by her sexual conduct with some male!!
To me, a religion smells fishy.


Ted   March 31st, 2010 8:42 am ET

There is nothing I can add to above blogs, both sides were well represented.
However, following must be mentioned:

US laws stop at the border, we cannot indict the Pope and expect him to obey. He is the head of 1.2 billion catholics and has more power than our President. So forget it!
By catching Noriega we broke a dozen international laws, destroyed a good part of Panama City and killed hundreds of innocent civilians.
Do you really wants us to do the same to Vatican City? Can you imagine the consequences?

The Vatican and the catholic church was always a haven for all kind of perverts, sexual and others, because they were above all laws!
Murderers, torturers, homosexuals, pedophiles, sadists, sodomists found a home there and enjoyed their depraved life under the protection of the church.

Cannon law applies only in church affaires and in the Vatican, but not in civil life.
It is up to our police and state attornies to prosecute all those priest who rape 12 year old boys and girls, because it is a crime under our laws. Many of those children misused were much younger than 12!!
If I had a consentual sex with a 16 year old young woman I would end up in jail for statutary rape. Where were and are our police?

Mr. Donohue is a living example of the beton heads who cannot see or accept anything negative regarding the roman catholic church. These people are the ones who kept it in the middle ages up to today.
It is up to us to force our government to handle all sodomists or pedophile with the same hard methods, regardless of priest, or minister, or rabbi or a truck driver.
We all should be equal under the law!!!!


ChildRescueBill.org   March 31st, 2010 8:44 am ET

Donahue seemed so proud of the churches efforts to set rules and guidelines in place to prevent further child abuse. In fact he suggested everyone should copy their policies. Let's see;

1. The church did NOT take this initiative on their own, it was the very people who exposed them that demanded it

2. If their policies are so terrific, then why did we have more abuses after they implemented it.

3. Let's not forget they also lobby to stop laws to deny victims rights and would expose the pedos, guess this must be their best policy. After all by stopping laws that would expose and offer justice now protects ALL pedos from all sectors of society.

More lies and deceit.


FM   March 31st, 2010 8:59 am ET

Horrifying to hear Bill Donohue shout, scream and top off that bizarre behaviour by saying that molesting 12/13 year olds is not pedophilia, but an act of homosexuality. Is the man clinically insane? His every action and word certainly points squarely in that direction.


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 9:17 am ET

If anyone thinks this abuse is no longer going on, his head is in the sand. One only need to look at the fact that Donahue is the voice of the Church. They are corrupt, and they will continue to be corrupt. What draws them together as a church is their collective criminality. It has nothing to do with being "deprived of sex because they have to be celibate." Please. What an insult to intelligence. They don't end up molesters because they are in the church; they are in the church because they are molesters - and other assorted criminals and frauds - who have sought out and found a safe harbor from within which to conduct themselves.


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 9:30 am ET

Ted makes an excellent point. The law should pursue these cases. If that means knocking on the door of the Vatican, so be it. Hold these monsters accountable.

From Donahue's vehemency and anger, I tend to think he's a pedophile himself. Who else would protect perpetrators of such atrociousness?

And how does the Pope and his cohorts expect the world to acknowledge Hell as a deterrent when they've created and/or contributed to creating Hell on earth for these poor, defenseless, vulnerable, trusting children? Obviously they don't believe in it themselves.

Catholics should protest this Easter Sunday and demand accountability. Send collection plates back empty-that is something the Church might understand.

Disgraceful and disgusting. WHERE ARE THE NUNS VOICES ON THIS ISSUE?? SPEAK UP, SISTERS.


Ted   March 31st, 2010 9:58 am ET

@ Nike the Farmer

You are 100% correct, this is not a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg!
The catholic church was a haven for hundreds of years where depraved individuals could enjoy their ugly life without fear.
Those pedophiles were already pedophiles when they entered the priesthood.


Julie   March 31st, 2010 10:00 am ET

I was baptized Catholic, raised Catholic, schooled by Dominican nuns in grade school and by Jesuit priests in high school and college. I know the workings of the RCC well.

After almost two decades of observing them, after a lifetime of being told how to think of them, I came to the conclusion that the image generally held by the public was not the same as what I saw. There was an underlying problem I had been witnessing since grade school, I just couldn't trust these people. So I left the RCC.

Last night I knew why I left and I realized the problem I had perceived so long ago was really there. All the spin, the conditioning, the brainwashing I had heard when I was a child came to a head.

The RCC is being exposed for what it has been all along. It either has to completely restructure itself, and that includes the stepping down of the pope and numerous cardinals and bishops and hand the accused priests over to the local authorities and let them handle it, or disband.

They have lost all credibility. The myth is shattered. They need to tear it down and rebuild it into something respectable or let it fade away.

"On this rock, I will build my church." The rock is a sponge. They need a solid foundation.


Ada Bezos Castilla   March 31st, 2010 10:12 am ET

Let's 's start – as Bill Donohue stated – by getting the facts straight: Bill Donohue is a sick man. He is an individual who has no scruples, and insult to catholics and non-catholics and one that does, in my opinion a great disservice to the church he represents. His mind is so wrapped up in his obsessiveness with what he envisions to be his catholic faith that he will sell his mother to defend it, which amounts to almost what he did last night. By implying that these were homosexual acts between consenting adults he is clearly minimizing the sin. Let this be clear! He has no feelings for the victims, no conceptual guilt of the boundaries crossed and the trust violated. His only aim is to perpetuate the hierarchy and the cannon of his faith.
All of the other panelist were lat least normal people, within the concept of human empathy and normal character. Donohue is not. Larry King was trying not to be confrontational – which is his usual style – but to some, including myself, this occasion should have risen to be the one where he had to go off the script, but be it as it may... Bill Donohue made a fool of himself. This is obvious to a lot of people, it should be obvious to the Catholic Church who should try to bring him down and replace with a more human, non-petulant, objective and more compassionate individual, one that would truly convey the dogma of Jesus Christ and not desecrate it as he does.


Pat   March 31st, 2010 10:14 am ET

I posted a comment last night but don't see it here. I will try again because I need to say something about this... Bill Donohue of Catholic Leauge is a blithering idiot. He is exactly what the Catholic Church does not need. He is in complete denial. He should be replaced as President of the Catholic League.... Maybe Cardinal Law can find him a cushy little position in the Vatican. It is deplorable that Mr. Donohue blames homosexuality for this horror and then, when that doesn't wash, he claims that raping 12-13 year olds is OK because they are post- pubescent!!! Is he insane??? As a Catholic, I am hurt, outraged and beside myself. I don't want the public face of the Catholic Church on television and in newspapers to be William Donohue. He is very out of touch and needs to keep his ignorant mouth closed.


mj   March 31st, 2010 10:39 am ET

You know after sitting and watching and hearing the most "ungodly" acts that has occurred over the years in the Catholic Church by the Priests, who say they represent GOD our Heavenly Father, well I'm here to tell them they represent the "Devil" himself.
IF the people will every wake up about this CULT they will run like Wild Fire.
People get out of this and come to Jesus. He won't be molesting your little boys I promise. Lord Help you all.


David Price   March 31st, 2010 10:58 am ET

Larry:
Please tell Bill Donohue that Webster's Dictionary's definition for pedophilia is "sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object". His mis-statement that "pedophile refers to pre-pubescent" is WRONG!
I appreciate his desire to support his religion, however it shouldn't be at the expense of misinterpreting these crimes.


Rose   March 31st, 2010 11:01 am ET

I was shocked to hear Donohue from the Catholic organization say that sexual abuse of boys by priests "was not pedophilia as the boys were pubescent, so it was a homosexual act" !?!?!?

Donohue defined pubescent as about 12 years old. This is still a child! It was pedophilia – a crime. Whenever Donohue has appeared on TV, he presents the Catholic Church as innocent of everything. He pulls every excuse under the sun. He never accepts that any wrong doing may have occured.

He is not an objective, balanced or contributing guest. I hope CNN will not continue to give this delusional man a platform that insults both victims of abuse and other Catholics who want to take a more responsible approach to this crisis.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:45 am ET

When the faithful of the Catholic Church refuse to fill the coffers and end their financial support of the institution that is at the head of the abuse of young children, maybe some of the abuse in the world will be reduced.

It has been going on for hundreds of years and the pedophiles and hebephiles, and ephebophiles, perhaps prompted by oenophilia and necrophiliac thirst and hunger...(blood and wine signature of their dead sponsor of Christianity),...will one day be imprisoned for their corruption in this world that 'preys' on the fears of the unknown by those who are unsuspecting.

It will no longer, however be an excuse for the 'faithful' to deny their culpability since they finance it 100%. STOP YOUR PARTICIPATION OF MOLESTERS...DENY YOUR ALMIGHTY DOLLARS TO THEM...


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:49 am ET

,,,,.CORRECTION.... blood and flesh signature.....


Patrick E. Trujillo   March 31st, 2010 11:52 am ET

We must stop paying our weekly ranson.

Accountability means responsiblity.

Patrick E. Trujillo
poetpat@optonline.net


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 12:01 pm ET

When the faithful of the Catholic Church refuse to fill the coffers and end their financial support of the institution that is at the head of the abuse of young children, maybe some of the abuse in the world will be reduced.

It has been going on for hundreds of years and the pedophiles and hebephiles, and ephebophiles, perhaps prompted by oenophilia and necrophiliac thirst and hunger...(blood and flesh signature of their dead sponsor of Christianity),...will one day be imprisoned for their corruption in this world that 'preys' on the thantophobia/necrophobia in the realm of the unknown by those who are unsuspecting.

It will no longer, however be an excuse for the 'faithful' to deny their culpability since they finance it 100%. STOP YOUR PARTICIPATION OF MOLESTERS...DENY YOUR ALMIGHTY DOLLARS TO THEM...


Drew Hertel   March 31st, 2010 12:05 pm ET

@Patrick
@Cajazz

You are aware that the Protestant churches have more abuse cases than the Catholic church aren't you? Why aren't you so fervently calling for their parishioners to stop supporting their churches?


Dodie   March 31st, 2010 12:09 pm ET

@ Jeannie C.

I am delighted I helped you to laugh. Laughter is the most healing aspect of our being. I often talk with someone who thinks in those terms... I guess it is contagious


Ray Williams   March 31st, 2010 12:12 pm ET

I cannot believe the President of the Catholic League behaved the way he did on the show. If the Church is looking to gain support they could start by getting rid of this guy. His comments on "Homosexuals" being the cause of their sexual abuse cases proves he is so out of touch with reality. Stating he would have "knocked the teeth out of the Priest" is so ungodly like that I would be ashamed to have him even represent one Church let alone the Catholic League. Yelling and being forceful only made him look out of control and defensive. Hopefully someone in the Church will understand that you cannot catagorize one group of people the way he did. People like him are the reason people are leaving the churches in groves. You can have your beliefs privately and don't need someone like this guy in your life. I was actually shocked by Bill Donahue and that he represents the Catholic League.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 12:20 pm ET

Drew Hertel

As do the Jews...they all have those who seek perversion of innocents.It's just that the Catholic Church has been identified and are being called out to stop what the world now and has known about and wants STOPPED. The rest will hopefully follow suit...and the home is probably the largest stage in the world for all abuse..silly human race...and their broken systems to allay their fears of their finality.....


Rick   March 31st, 2010 12:31 pm ET

Hey let us start finding out how communism gets established, because we are starting to get some similarities with communist countries here...anywhere a powerful group wanted to establish communism did start by destroying the Catholic Church in that country. Though this time it seems to be a global disaster... Tell me something: who is finally winning the 'cold war'???


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 12:33 pm ET

Rick...

Take your kids to Disney World and just be a good parent... to infect them with a corrupt discipline is not to your or their advantage....get real and understand that your being duped and you are paying for it yourself..silly human race..and their inventions...a god complemented by a religion to parlay the fears of his death....and then what...dust...pheewwwwwww...to the winds...or to the soil.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 12:38 pm ET

Rick

Who is winning..the arms manufacturer's of things that go BOOM and then become inert...Religion and Politics are the same..which came first?
Papal States espousing political polemics or outhouse Philosopher's whom later formed armies...both also had armies...correct?


Dodie   March 31st, 2010 12:49 pm ET

@ Luis

You have me laughing with your analogy using John McCain as your reference. Luis, how do you know John McCain is NOT a sex pervert....Why do you think he chose Palin. He is addicted to drooling and possibly dribbling!

I never stated that Celibacy would be the only indicator of Pedophilia. With human behavior, there is never just one cause and effect especially in an area this complex. I suspect... (remember, the operational word here is) 'suspect' this type of vocation would attract those that might have tendencies in pedophilia, those that were molested as children, etc. Does that mean all priests are this way... of course not. Just look at the cross section of opinions in this blog alone will give you an indication we are more like the dog kennel as we vary widely. Just because one does not marry has no correlation to their none engagement in sexual activities or auto eroticism. If that were true, we would have no pregnant single moms!

Ah, Luis! Don't trip over your tongue. POWs may appear to lead normal lives; however, deep inside, they have been changed, altered in more ways than we can even imagine.

Luis, I do not go around in my community wondering who got laid last night and who did not! You are giving yourself away without realizing it! LOL

Jane Goodall is the woman you are referring to. We do not know about the man's sexual life with which you reference. It was a movie and neither you nor I were there. For all we know, Jane and the man were engaging in sex for the 20 years. Interesting you would think about molesting baby gorillas... Do you have any desires in that direction?
Luis, you are funny and cute. Your defense for celibacy not being a factor is a weak one at best, but I certainly enjoyed how you presented it. It certainly gave me much laughter and delight!


Lauretta   March 31st, 2010 12:52 pm ET

As a Catholic who loves my faith, I want to state that I am grateful to the media for bringing this tragedy of sex abuse in the Church to light. It needs to be stopped and, unfortunately, it took the public outcry to really set things in motion.

However, as one who is primarily concerned about the safety of children, the constant attention on the Church is unsettling, in that, of approximately 39 million people in the U.S. who have been abused, about 50,000 of those claim that it was done by a priest. The primary sources of sexual abuse in this country are not being addressed at all.

About fifty percent of abuse occurs from family members or the significant other of the mother. We need to look at this as diligently as we do the abuse in the Church.

School teachers are another area of much sexual abuse. We need to expose this as well and hold our school systems accountable for hiding and shuffling and paying the salaries of abusive teachers. Are you aware that some schools pay the salaries of abusive teachers even when they no longer teach? This is your tax money paying for teachers to abuse children.

We should all begin an outcry to the media to be as diligent about this subject in all areas of society, not just the Catholic Church. The numbers do not support the amount of attention being placed on the Church.

Interestingly as well, when Pope Benedict was elected he was called a Rottweiler because he was so tough and mean, etc. Now the media is saying that he was not nearly as tough as he should have been. The poor man can do nothing right according to the media!

One last comment. Many of the abuse allegations stem from a period in our society when these sorts of things were not discussed in public. Remember the young women who were sent away from their communities to have out of wedlock children and then were told to never mention it to avoid embarrassing the family. The Church was reflecting the culture of the time in the way in which these things were dealt with. The school system is still dealing with them in this way. Let's work to change that and hold all who abuse children accountable–even when they are family members.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 12:52 pm ET

Donahue is seriously ill! The producers of this show did not pick a good panel to represent the Catholic Church. There is so much anger about sexual abuse here directed at the Catholic Church . But it should be directed at the small percentage of paedophiles IN the church.

Hating Catholics and Catholism, has been around a lot longer than the sexual abuse scandal. I grew up with it and the hate speech that accompanied it. Now people feel they have a worthy excuse.

But paedophillia is everywhere!!!! The sins f the Catholic Church while they need to be addressed and those involved prosecuted, are a mere microcozim of the problem with sexual abuse EVERYWHERE.

Sports for children; babysitters; uncles and relatives; child traficing; teachers are by far more numerous; the Episcopal, Anglican and protestant churches; Jet setters and royalty. Its in every country, every community, every religion. Only a small percentage of the over all number of priests have actually abused children. There are and have been many, many, many good priests.

Why is hate speech OK? Why is it OK to speak hatefully against one religion and not another? Why does the media allow this? Why does the media write articles without the correct facts and then allow everyone to be incited with hate? Get yer facts straight first.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 12:54 pm ET

Rick

I'll bet you deplore Muslims...Guess what? They are the closest in ideology than any other theological organization to the Catholic Church..a FACT..ask one...one difference..the Muslims don't think God/Allah had a son named Jesus...they believe in the prophet Jesus...just not the fact the Lord, your God, supplied the spunk...


butterscotchrum   March 31st, 2010 12:57 pm ET

This whole mess is excatly what the devil wants! The evil he placed in these men to abuse children was intentional. We are coming to the end, and it's a spiritual warfare. What better way to place doubt in a person's mind about faith in God! The devil is trying to win souls, but at least for all who believe in God, we know who wins!!


Rick   March 31st, 2010 12:58 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, which discipline is corrupt? If you would read the Bible and really understand what it wants to teach you, it will not go that wrong in life. Reading the Bible is the same as talking to the most experienced in life. The Vatican / Catholic Church is a best school we can attend to get a good guide of how to live our lives. At least Cajazz76:24:8, that is 100 percent valid for my life. I have dealt with corrupt priests myself, but that did absolutelty NOT change my confidence in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Sports for example is soooo much more corrupt! Do you have an idea how many more victims there could be in sports world with trainers/kids??? BUT, in the actual situation where the Catholic Church is being spanked, it is not about correction of an evil, NO. It is about how to take advantage of people's disgrace to the advantage of achieving an evil. Else, media would have attacked not only the Catholic Church, but also sports, arts, schools, healthcare, etc which all would have been guilty of sexual abuse....Again, check out 'Bella Dodd"...


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 1:02 pm ET

Rick,

Frankly, your analogy between being a parent and being Catholic is way off. There are some parents who, unfortunately, abuse their kids. As a society, we work to take the kids away from abusive parents. This has nothing to do with my point.

Parenthood, as an institution, is not fraudulent. The Catholic church, as an instution, is. It has always been corrupt, from its inception. The Pope is elected like any political leader, and yet he's claimed to be Christ's vicar on earth. Give me a break. Christ had nothing to do with his selection. Do you really think Christ would support the workings of this political body? There is nothing Christ-like about it. It's a centuries-old fraud.

Now, the Catholic Church would like you to believe that it is the victim here. The victim of an external evil - a band of "homosexuals" that has invaded its province, and committed deeds over which it has had no control or knowledge, and, therefore, for which it does not have to engage in any meaningful retribution (because, after all, it isn't the church's fault, right?). This is exactly how our political bodies react to shame. Deflection and denial. It's predictable. But it isn't Christ-like.

You are right about one thing - people will continue to follow religions no matter what anyone else says. It serves their personal purposes. It makes them feel as though they are special, they have some sort of "in" with God, the almighty. It also makes them feel as though they are part of a community - they "belong" (like everyone in the subdivision who has a new Taurus). This is how most products are sold. It's great marketing. It isn't Christ-like.

Good luck.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:04 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, deplore Muslims??? No. I do have close muslim friends. I love them. They do have their believe, which might coincide with my believe, dispite the fact that it is brought forward different. We call each other cousins. I believe true good religion makes good man, if understood correctly.


mcmargie   March 31st, 2010 1:07 pm ET

Pope Benedict and the U.S. Catholic Bishops are deeply concerned for those who have been harmed by sexual abuse. The Pope has strengthened the Church´s response to victims and has been dealing with the perpetrators.

In the U.S. the Catholic Church has intensified their efforts to provide safe environments for children within the parishes and schools. They are also working with others in the communities to address the prevalence of sexual abuse in the larger society as well.

Have you all forgot when the pope visited the U.S. in 2008 and met with the victims and consoled them?

Being Catholic myself, I've witnessed the Catholic church which has spent millions on preventing further sex abuse. They created the "Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People", which calls the clergy to respond with compassion to victims and survivors, to work diligently to screen those working with children and young people in the Church, to provide child abuse awareness and prevention education, to report suspected abuse to civil law enforcement, and to account for our efforts to protect children and youth through an external annual national audit.

There are not a lot of sex abusers in the Catholic Church as gossip would have you believe. There are a lot of wonderful priests. Sex abusers are in the schools, other religions, teachers, strangers, neighbors, doctors and even family members.

With all the negative and ugly comments directed towards Catholic's and the Catholic Church posted on this blog it is easy to have selective memory isn't it? How convienent it is to forget that the Catholic Church does a lot of wonderful things for your communities and worldwide such as volunteer work and spends an enormous amount of money giving help to the poor, needy, disabled, elderly, sick...I can go on and on. You cannot paint the Catholic Church with one color with one paint brush.

Need I remind you that Jesus said to forgive.

I find it sad that I've read here that there are "former" Catholics and bloggers who know nothing about the Catholic Church yet spew such hatred. Please keep reading my post because this next part is very important and the true Catholic's understand there is something deeper in Roman Catholicism...

No matter what happens I will always stay strong as a member of the Catholic Church. The most important thing to remember as a Catholic is that you are going to Church to celebrate Mass and receive Holy Communion...which is the body and blood of Christ. It is not a symbol to Catholic's, it is the real body and blood of Christ. If you have any doubts, "google" Eucharistic Miracles. That is the most important piece of the doctrine. It boggles my mind how any Catholic could turn against the religion if they truly understand the depth of receiving the body and blood of Christ during Mass.

That's what it's all about!


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 1:11 pm ET

McMargie..

The Pope and the Bishops are not "deeply concerned for those who have been harmed by sexual abuse." They are concerned that every scandal might diminish their following, and, therefore, the amount of money they put in the basket every week.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:13 pm ET

Niko the Farmer, do you really mean what you say that "Parenthood, as an institution, is not fraudulent"??? How about those that bring children to this world because of selfish sex adventure, than wants to abort them??? How many kid have no father by their side??? How many kids are left for the grand parents to take care of them, no father no mother by their side?? How many babies are simply abandoned on the street somewhere or even found dead in trash containers??? How many kid suffer malnutrition while parents buy themselved all sorts of earthly goods??? And so we can continue to mention. Come on, let's be real.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 1:14 pm ET

Every institution is fraudulent-sexual abuse begins at home-IN the family FIRST. The 1000's of years of sexual abuse against children (and women) has always been about the misuse of Power.

The Catholic church has placed blame on homosexual priests in the past, but there has also been heterosexual priests. Unfortunately, because homosexuality was in the closet in our society for so long, many old priests were homosexual. The church, and a life of celibacy was their only refuge.

Having said that, there are well over 1,000,000 priest sin the world. The percentage of abusing priests is estimated at about 6%. What is the percentage of abusers in a mixed population of heterosexual and homosexual men in general society?


Gerald Jolly   March 31st, 2010 1:15 pm ET

Question asked.

Is it possible that the POPE is a PEDOPHILE???

Please answer.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:17 pm ET

Niko the Farmer, another thing: I doubt it very much that you ae not corrupt yourself...because that is meant by when we say that we are all sinners. BUT, acknowledge that we need to convert, which means we need to aim at perfection, makes a BIG difference.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 1:19 pm ET

to Gerald Holly:

Its a possibility-just as its a possibility you are a pedophile. But statistically and practically, its unlikely.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:20 pm ET

Rick

I am glad to hear your well balanced...it is very admirable of you to not be biased...my hat is off to you...


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:21 pm ET

Gerald Jolly, Question asked; is it possible that I am a pedophile??? Please answer...

I suggest you to read more about the human nature, and how to manage it. There is a lot to be learned about that. Start reading the Bible, asking yourself what it is that it wants to teach you...


Gerald Jolly   March 31st, 2010 1:23 pm ET

The Pope is supposed to be the living representation of Jesus Christ, as the catholic church tells us.

I have scoured every bit of information I could find, and nowhere does ot suggest the Jesus Christ was a PEDOPHILE.

What's with that.

Is it possible that the "GOOFY MORON" Donahue is himself a PEDOPHILE.

Is that why he so strongle defends the Pedophile priests??

Last night in Anger Moron Donahue stated that he was so angry about what was being said about the Pope that if he was in the presence of someone saying nast things about the Pope, he would smack them with a WET NOODLE.

Bring it one MORON I will say it in your presence any day, and you can take your noodle and shove it where the SUN DOES'NT SHINE.


mcmargie   March 31st, 2010 1:24 pm ET

Niko the Farmer,
Have you been to a Catholic Service where the Priests and Deacon's talk about the sex abuse scandal? No...I don't think so. I will tell you that I have witnessed and heard with my own ears that they do. They pray as a congregation and lead by beautiful, heartfelt leaders such as Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. Are you aware that we pass the basket around for charities every week including rehabilitation and healing committees and groups for the sexually abused whether you are a member of the church or not? No...I didn't think so! Becareful of your posts...you could be wrong but don't know it!


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 1:27 pm ET

Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. These pedophile priests are twisted miscreants.

I laugh in the face of the church trying to tell women what they can and cannot do with their bodies any more. Perhaps they're so anti-abortion because then they'd have less children to sexually abuse.

They need to undergo an operation and then be imprisoned and the pope should be leading the brigade.

If God is in us, then these priests (and the pope is not immune to judgment) do these crimes to God AS WELL.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 1:29 pm ET

Donahue is a sick man. No argument there. However, whether the pope should be blamed now for not acting then, is a matter for an investigation. Just like all those police officers, prosecutors and politicians who failed to act when they knew what was going on. Definately opening a can of worms.

The Catholic church for all its problems, is being used a scapegoat and a target in all of this. Sexual abuse is everywhere. Its as much a crime of the rich and powerful as it is a crime of the poor and uneducated.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:32 pm ET

mc margie...

Seems your blinded by the light...a bit of phobia and cannibalism mixed in a tiny cauldron called a chalice gives you what? A greater hold on your psyche...silly human race and its fear of the unknown....enjoy today and have another cup of coffee to sober your true feelings...your fear..admit it.

malachy..related to the Hatchy Malachy of my youth?

Having 60,000 priests (your figure) abusing children in the world today is acceptable? Just a casuality so you can abate your fears, right?


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:33 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, one more thing, religion is one thing, and politics another. True good religion is clean. Politics is dirty. So; guess what happens if politics infiltrate religion....


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:35 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, pls search "Bella Dodd" and let us know what you think about all this...


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:35 pm ET

Malachy

The Catholic Church has hired top gun lawyers to rid themselves of the truth and the guilt and the adjudication...and remain status quo...that is what this is all about...


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:37 pm ET

Rick...

Politics and Religion...all sheeple...different wool... both cannot survive without a following and flowing contributions...


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 1:38 pm ET

"Sexual abuse is everywhere. Its as much a crime of the rich and powerful as it is a crime of the poor and uneducated." ??

And when we know WHERE it is on a GLOBAL SCALE (in the church), it NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND STOPPED.

Funny-Jesus didn't share your attitude of "oh well sin is every where". If he did, there'd be no Christianity.

The Catholic church is no scapegoat. It's been caught with its PANTS DOWN-literally. It deserves what it gets. Don't confuse the church with Christ. By today's standards and this issue, they are NOT the same thing.

Not calling a spade a spade is to continue to crime spree. Remember Jesus' words about remaining silent.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:40 pm ET

Rick

NEITHER ARE REALLY NECESSARY..are they?


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 1:41 pm ET

Of course it's about power...

power of priests against little boys and girls;

power of Vatican money.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:43 pm ET

Gwen, do you mean to say that it is ok to kill the kids but not abuse them sexually??? Gwwn when you talk about the Catholic Church, you are talking about ALL OF US who are Catholics. Clergy is part of the Catholic Church. We are huge group of people. If you do not realize it, we are part of the world's population that have the same problem with the management of our human nature. The difference is this: as Catholics we know we have to learn how to manage our human nature, and the teachings of the Catholic Church does help us..BUT we are not Jesus Christ...we FOLLOW Him. We can make mistakes, big or small, but we are sinners just like you are Gwen...


mcmargie   March 31st, 2010 1:46 pm ET

Gerald Jolly,
"The Pope is supposed to be the living representation of Jesus Christ, as the catholic church tells us."

What? The Catholic Church does not tell anyone that.

I hate to break this to you...The Pope is just a man. Any man on this god-given Earth is not perfect. Any man can make a mistake. Any man can be forgiven by those who understand what Jesus wants use to do daily. He said it on the cross while being crucified by Roman soldiers, he spoke to God and prayed, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

Earlier Jesus spoke to his disciples: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44).

There are some bloggers here that are so mean-spirted and spew only hatred. The Apostle Paul was once a persecutor of Christians, he later converts to Christianity, and his past acts are forgiven so that he can campaign as a representative of Christ. I pray that one day that those here that blog negative comments that have no truth or blog sick questions regarding the Pope...see "the light" as Paul did.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 1:49 pm ET

I agree with you the fact that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality to the same extent that heterosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. But statistically, in the Catholic Church, most of the priests who were caught and charged with pedophilia identified themselves as homosexual. Historically, was a large number of homosexual men seeking refuge in a chaste life as a priest. (Look up Wikpedia homosexuality, priests and the Catholic Church.

No Hatchy here.

the number is 5000 to 6000 (estimate) which is .0005% roughly

No number is acceptable-but you raise a good point, why all this focus (HATE) against the church without the greater OUTRAGE against the community? That is the outrage necessary to stop sexual abuse.

There are far, far, far, darker secrets out there. Its a red herring and a terrible mistake to nurse the "Myth" that all priests are pedophiles. (which is the by-product of focusing soley on the Catholic Church scandal)

It takes and keeps peoples eyes off the insidious nature of the problem, and the world wide cover-up.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:51 pm ET

Rick

I don't get your Bella Dodd reference..she was a government witness during the McCarthy Senate hearings..she was booted from the communist part for defending a landlord and turned rat on the political party she was once espoused to...the fact she was Italian or Catholic or a teacher was just part of her makeup..what's the question?


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:53 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, we cannot exist without religion. Religion is a word indicating our relationship with the true God. It can be a good relationship, it can be less good relationship, it can be a bad relationship, etc. Once we were born, religion started for us. We are all looking for love, kindness, warmth, friendship, trust, loyalty in goodness, etc. It all comes from God. That is why we want to get close to the true God to live in "heaven" where we can experience everything that belongs to God. But for that to happen, we need to find God through a good religion. Is it clearer now? Politics is not necessary. We simply need good public administrators. Politics is an invention of those interested to be the kings of all earthly goods. That is why Jesus Christ said to give Caesar what belongs to Caesar.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 1:55 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8 you should be able to find Bella's revelation about planned infiltration of the Catholic church by at least 1400 men to destroy the Church from the inside...check it out...


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:55 pm ET

malachy

Get a calculator if necessary...6% of your estimated 1,000,000 number of Catholic priests is still 60,000...ask your kids..I'll bet you change your number....


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 1:57 pm ET

Rick

Bella Dodd was CARPET TAPE..TWO FACED...


Lauretta   March 31st, 2010 1:58 pm ET

Cajazz,
Bella Dodd said that she personally put over 1000 men into Catholic seminaries in the 1920's and 30's to infiltrate and destroy the Church. She said that her men had reached the level of being Cardinals in the Church. I'm sure that is what Rick was referring to. Who knows how many of the abusive priests in the Church are there to try to destroy the Church? Pretty effective way, don't you think?


malachy   March 31st, 2010 2:04 pm ET

To Cajazz76:24:8

what's your point? If you were accused of a crime, and a very serious crime of sexual abuse wouldn't you get the best lawyer you can afford? Look at all the greedy lawyers that work to get money for victims ( taking as much as half of the victims money, even in class action suits) Wouldn't you also hire a good lawyer? What if you were being accused and are innocent? What if the media was taking a terrible situation (legitimate abuse) and turning it into a hysterical feeding frenzy, where both credible complaints and false complaints were coming out of the wood work? A financial free for all? What if it threatened to destroy the foundation of your reputation and all the good things that have been done? What if hate was being incited and mis-truths and rumors influencing the opinions people of the world?

Don't be a hypocrite. You would get the best lawyer you could afford.


Rick   March 31st, 2010 2:04 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, please search also what happened (is happening) to the Catholic Church in the communist countries...


malachy   March 31st, 2010 2:06 pm ET

To Cajazz76:24:8

Bad math skills, my apology. Its between a half and .6 of a percentage. But you love to jump on any simple error to justify your hate 🙂


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:07 pm ET

Rick

You put yourself right in the center of a dichotomy...which religion cannot be eliminated from this earth?...Remember there are more religions than there are political parties in the U.S.....name one..you would toss out..they are all a belief system created by none other...Man..as your bible..as all of the religions of this world...your confusing your God with so many..he won't who to send his contributions..


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:14 pm ET

malachy

Where in the 'hell of your belief system' do you see hate spewing from me? I think I have been using the word silly the whole time..as in Silly Human Race...I haven't backed down from what I see as common sense amongst convoluted deniers and those in fear...I want to see your fears subside and realize we have a good world to live in and die in..or so it was...before the ADVENT OF RELIGION....get it? Have a chuckle...it is a silly thing when you use reality to deduce it all...


Rick   March 31st, 2010 2:14 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, mankind has been in search of the true God always. You are righ in saying "there are more religions than there are political parties in the U.S", even within Catolicism there are different opinions about "how to". BUT, we are on the right path searching for perfection. And THANK GOD I have the Catholic Church that did teach me what to do so I did not need to re-invent "the wheel" of life. I did avoid a geat many mistakes, and understood where the bad consequences came from... Not having the Catholic Church, for me, would be like having no parent...


Rick   March 31st, 2010 2:18 pm ET

malachy, Cajazz76:24:8 does need love, kindness, friendship, warmth just as any one of us.

Cajazz76:24:8, the fear we have is the same fear you have; fear of lonelyness, fear of pain in mind and body.


Gerald Jolly   March 31st, 2010 2:20 pm ET

@ mcmargie.

Just to clear up one point of your blog.

When they pass the collection plate around to it's parisheners, it's not to provide help to the poor, it's not for charitable work.

It's to enrich the Vatican by many more billions of dollars and to provide golden statues, golden medals, luxurious clothes and 5 star meals and excellent housing for the perverts and pedophiles that exist in every location where a catholics church exists.

Did you know that the personal wealth of the catholic church is estimated to be $7 trillion dollars and growing everyday.

Did you know that the Vatican has 309 accountants that invest and manage the great wealth of the church, some of their investments include ARMS trade, Oil Futures, Extensive holdings in Diamond and Gold mines in South Africa, one of the poorest countries in the world.

It is estimated that the catholic church reaps more than 100 million dollars a years from the poorest towns and cities in south american countries that are predominantly spanish speaking and almost 100% catholics.

Did you know that every catholic minister of the church above a parish priest is paid more than $100 thousand dollar salary annually as well as a paid for by parishioners rectory and car that person drives.

Did you know that only three people get paid in every parish, the priest the church janitor and the rectory cook-maid.

Did you know that even in the poorest parishes around the world, the best fed person is the local priest.

Did you know that for centuries, in Italy when the son of a family was found to have homosexual tendencies he was immediatelt shipped of to the monistary. (A PRACTICE THAT STILL EXISTS TO THIS DAY)

Did you know that the last time an act of charity was done by the catholics church it was to fund the poor in Germany during WW2

If you do not believe what I say, take the time to access the internet under acts of charityin the 20th century by the catholic church.

It will astound you that the entire piece is only about one paragraph long.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

And I am ashamed that I actually once believed that the Catholic Church was the only Church sanctioned by Jesus Christ.

WHAT A SICK JOKE.


MoreLight   March 31st, 2010 2:22 pm ET

William Donohue is the president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. His organization is concerned with defamation and the civil rights of Catholics and other Christians. The Catholic League is not an agency of the Catholic Church and does not represent the church. Donohue does not speak FOR the church, he speaks ABOUT the church.

A person or organization is defamed by UNJUSTLY damaging its good reputation. Reporting that the Catholic Church for decades supressed information about sexual abuse by some of its clergy is not defamation. It is simply stating the unvarnished truth.

As a life-long member of the Catholic Church and a graduate of 12 years of Catholic school I am angry that sexual abuse occurred at the hands of those whom we children were taught to revere. I am ashamed that some of the hierarchy of my church were complicit in the abuse of children by their failure to remove and punish the abusers. I want this story brought to light in the hope of obtaining justice and healing for the victims and punishment and shame for the perpetrators. If the truth lands in a stinking mess at the pope's front door, so be it!

When William Donohue addresses the sexual abuse scandal within the Catholic church he does not speak for the church, for me, or for the people who sit in the pews with me. William Donohue speaks for himself... and HE SPEAKS TOO MUCH!


malachy   March 31st, 2010 2:25 pm ET

The outcome of this scandal may be some good for the church, and its parishoners around the world.

Education: (The church still seems to need some basic sexual education if Donahue is an indication) about sexuality and sex abuse, ethical practice and consequences.

Open dialogue between the Church and its members and those who have left the church.

A thorough investigation of priests, bishops, cardinals, community professionals and politicians who were and are involved in cover-up

The voices of many stifled, good priests by a top heavy autocratic system, will be heard.

Women as priests. More married priests allowed.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 2:26 pm ET

@ mcmargie, the foundation of the Catholic Church is the apostolic succession of leadership from Jesus to his disciples and from his disciples to each Pope in succession.

Unlike Protestant Christianity who Protested against the notion that the Pope was the Human Divine Figure-Head of Christianity in the flesh, whose edicts and Papal Bulls were absolute and to be followed to the letter under threat of excommunication.

Even more callous, outrageous and over the top is the lie that Jesus gave his disciple Paul the keys to Heaven and Hell which are depicted in the Pope's Seal. Leading to yet another threat of the Pope, that being the Pope as a spiritual slave master over Heaven and Hell.

Catholics look to Pope Ratz as the apostolic succession of Jesus Christ. They bow to Pope Ratz, kiss his hands, kiss his huge golden elaborate rings and pray to him as God in the flesh.

Pope Ratz ordered his Church Parishes in America to file Bankruptcy rather than Pay the US COURT ORDERED monetary settlements to the thousands of children the Vatican clergy raped and sodomized.

Does that sound like a decent man, much less anyone with ethical and moralistic standards YOU admire?

The order to bypass US Court ordered monetary settlements is a cold hearted and utterly disgusting signal that Pope Ratz does not care one iota about the thousands of sexually abused children and he cares completely about the Vatican's wealth and plunder.

I can think of NO WORSE example of a religious leader.

Pope Ratz is a utterly disgusting religious father-head who has not even a grain of the spirit of Jesus Christ running in his body.

Pope Ratz should RESIGN

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages and shunned by the civilized world.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:33 pm ET

Searching for a defense of a criminal cover-up...sounds familiar to something we all have and it smells...Now tell me how many of you would still eat at McDonald's, Burger King, Jack in the Box, or any food serving establishment if a rat was found in your burger? Well there is a Ratz in the mix of it all..you just are using your fears to eliminate the smell...Deny he was not in a Nazi uniform before he was leader of your church...Hitler has him first..now he is yours...enjoy! He is a piece of the artwork in the museums of corruption.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 2:34 pm ET

Why hasn't the Vatican returned the Nazi Gold that it acquired over World War 2 to the poor Jewish and Romanian Family's from which it was originally stolen by the Nazi Stormtroopers?

The Nazi Gold horded by the Vatican and stored in the Vatican Banks are rumored to be worth many Billions of dollars in today's Gold Prices. Why after 70 Long Years hasn't the Vatican Returned those Gold Ingots to their true owners?

Why hasn't Pope Ratz apologized to the Jewish and Romanian Gypsy family's for the callous and crass hardship the Vatican has directly caused those poor family's by not returning their stolen Gold?


malachy   March 31st, 2010 2:40 pm ET

To Rick,

There seems to be some people on this forum who are hell bent on only voicing their opinion, irregardless of the consequences to others. A lot of words and not a lot of thought or truth. They want (or need a demon, a witch, whatever) and can't see that we have moved into the next millennia. These people feel justified in hearing their own clouded opinion and not about thinking rationally. Spout, spout, spout hate and irrelevant points that fail to look at the bigger issues regarding sexual abuse of children.

As long s they get to vent their hatred for the Catholic Church over and over, and attack other's valid points, they feel justified...hmm? I wonder if they get paid to write this drivel?


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:40 pm ET

The Bella Dodd myth is just that...made up by guess who? Your Catholic Church...she never said that or wrote that..your church propaganda did..


malachy   March 31st, 2010 2:43 pm ET

Crimes against humanity: There are many, many crimes. Many, many players. Why do you only focus your relentless hatred at the Catholic Church? Don't you know who funded WW2?


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:49 pm ET

Rick

We all need a system of support or we would never have 'evolved' to where we are today. It is a sham that false idols and false belief systems were put in play to 'prey' on that need. It is a silly human race on the eve of self destruction... that is your true fear and could be your salvation, as well.

Once again. man's first enemy was his fear...his first invention to combat that fear was his God...and to make it a business came religion under the political polemic guise to capture your ALMIGHTY DOLLARS....if your faith is so strong you do not need to pay to believe..give something to a needy person you know and you will feel much better for it, than paying for a corrupted system...that gives you what?


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 2:57 pm ET

Pope Ratz only cares about the Vatican gold and plunder.

Pope Ratz ordered the parishes ordered by US Courts to pay monetary settlements to hundreds of children that had been raped and sodomized by Vatican clerics to declare Bankruptcy rather than pay those shattered children the US Court ordered monetary amounts.

Pope Ratz is a utterly disgusting religious father-head who has not even a grain of the spirit of Jesus Christ running in his body.

Pope Ratz should Resign.

I can think of NO WORSE example of a religious leader.

The Vatican should be sued back to the Dark Ages and shunned by the civilized world.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 2:58 pm ET

malachy

A near and dear friend died yesterday...he was cremated..no viewing.. no funeral..his ashes interred and not spread because his body was diseased...where is he now? His memory will be a good one as long as those who knew and loved him remain alive..he was very generous and never harmed anyone. Where is he now?


malachy   March 31st, 2010 3:01 pm ET

To Cajazz76:24:8

"History in the Remaking
A temple complex in Turkey that predates even the pyramids is rewriting the story of human evolution."

search Turkey, religion predates civilization.

The NEW theory was that it was man's creativity expressed in his profound need to worship, was the basis for civilization via agrarian culture. A inherent drive. Jung was right all along.

The problem today is that with the advent of modern media, secularism (and all its self righteousness) people have demonized religion instead of themselves. No one likes to hold himself or human nature accountable. Religion is not the source of greed, misery or corruption. The human being is through his actions towards himself and others.

Religion is his first attempt at evolving and his need to transcend his condition. We have to stop scapegoating a convenient demon and confront our own demons. The human corruption of science, technology and its power is another vehicle and is a bigger threat to humanity.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:05 pm ET

malachy

You have already misrepresented facts, now you are going to purport more, much the way the Catholic Church and all other. Don't even go there because it puts you and them in far dimmer light...Who funded WWII ...go ahead and say it was YOUR Catholic Church...b/s..........


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 3:06 pm ET

The Catholic Church in Denmark has just announced it would launch an investigation next week into claims of clerical abuse dating back several decades during the time that Cardinal Ratz was in charge of dealing with the thousands of cases of Vatican cleric pedophilia.

This move comes after the Denmark church came under recent pressure from media and human rights groups to revisit allegations of sexual abuse that had not been reported to police and were instead hushed up by Pope Ratz, then known as Cardinal Ratz.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:08 pm ET

malachy

WHICH RELIGION? And who the hell is he? The ones you put above your sun visor? You are not ready to debate what you haven't a clue to.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 3:12 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8 Wrote:

A near and dear friend died yesterday...he was cremated..no viewing.. no funeral..his ashes interred and not spread because his body was diseased...where is he now? His memory will be a good one as long as those who knew and loved him remain alive..he was very generous and never harmed anyone. Where is he now?

**********************************************

I am sorry for your loss. Jesus said "In my father's house there are many mansions".

I subscribe to the belief that Jesus died for all irregardless of beliefs or sins-"no one comes unto the father except by me". I believe that Christ's sacrifice is representative of God's new covenant with mankind. Personal sacrifice, personal divinity. We arer all Gods children and therefore divine beings.

The nature of science and modern physics talks about many parrarel universes-Is it important to create heaven on earth; to be in a state of grace and forgiveness and seek God in HIS temple, the human spirit.

The church, religion and its manifestations, art buildings beliefs, rituals and practices should bring us closer to that state of grace. For many its the Catholic mass. But we are responsible for our own actions and behavior, whether we are in a state of denial or not.

In my father's house there are many mansions (dimensions, perhaps?) We don't know. Each person must live his life, talents spirit to the fullest of his being and find his faith in what sustains him.


Suzanne   March 31st, 2010 3:12 pm ET

Thank you for last nights amazing discussion. The four speakers brought great depth to the subject. When Sinead asked Donahue for his definition of pre-pubescent, his answer shocked me. Lay members, in trying to help the Pope, killed any possibility by sadly confusing pedophiles with homosexuals.

Future topic: the Pope believes that he can speak Ex Cathedra, that is
through the Holy Spirit, and he can't be wrong! It is rare to issue this, but would rock the catholic establishment.

My reason for leaving the Church was due to the Los Angeles Bishop's parish requirement of an annual contribution from our parish of $l56k for helping illegals in innercity. The parish teachers only get tiny salaries with no medical or retirement benefits. As an aside, that year the Bishop replaced our pedophile priest who committed suicide with an openly gay priest who said he was celibate.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:14 pm ET

malachy

To separate man and religion is like separating fly poo from pepper. Religion before civilization sounds like the very essence of what it is...ridiculous...like an egg and never a 'chikin' to be found....


Petel2   March 31st, 2010 3:16 pm ET

Understanding the value of Catholic "good works". First and foremost, Catholic charities is paid for primarily with your tax dollars. Every time you see catholic charities in the news, it is a promotion of the catholic name. They couldn't promote themselves if they never received 65% to 75% from our tax dollars.

Volunteer work, the work people don't get paid for, is many times documented at $15/hr. I hope you can all do the math, if they claim the remaining costs paid for by them, it is in vapor wages. This gives the appearance they are contributing.

Final note: the RCC wouldn't do it if it was not profitable.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:17 pm ET

malachy

you have made some sense with your last send...it culminates to self..so true..the final frontier is at our feet...


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 3:19 pm ET

More than 300 former students in German Catholic schools and choirs have come forward since January with abuse claims. The country's government announced Wednesday it will form an expert 40-member committee to investigate.

The allegations have come almost daily, including TODAY, when the Munich archdiocese confirmed that another person claims to have been molested as a youth in 1998 by a priest who was previously convicted of abuse, the Rev. Peter Hullermann.

The church's management of Hullermann's case overlaps with the time that Benedict, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, served as Munich archbishop from 1977 to 1982. AGAIN POPE RATZ and his older brother Georg Ratz (already confessed to sexual abusing children in his care) are smack in the middle of the unfolding Sex Abuse Scandals.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 3:20 pm ET

Well-since you know everything, I have nothing more to say.

The article I was referencing is in Newsweek on line and in science magazines.

Google/ Search: Turkey archeological dig reshaping human history

Its about the recent "dig" in Turkey. Decide for yourself.

best wishes and I truly am sorry to hear that you lost your friend.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 3:26 pm ET

On Wednesday, a new poll in Germany found that confidence in the Catholic church has dropped dramatically in reaction to the scandal.

Only 17% of Germans polled said they still trust the Catholic church, compared to 29% in late January, just before the first abuse cases were made public, according to the Stern magazine poll.

Many Germans also have lost confidence in Pope Ratz himself, the poll showed. Only 24% still trust him, while six weeks ago 38% said they did.

Some 1,508 persons were interviewed for the poll last week. The margin of error was plus or minus 2.5%

Only 1 in 4 people in Pope Ratz's Home country where he was Archbishop for 5 years Trust that corrupt man!

WOW!

75% of all Germans surveyed DO NOT TRUST POPE RATZ.

83% of all Germans surveyed DO NOT TRUST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 3:28 pm ET

To Rick,

I never said it was okay to kill anyone. Don't get off topic. The topic is child sexual abuse by priests. The Church is a hypocrite for trying to tell women what is allowed with their own bodies, while they are VIOLATING THE BODIES OF CHILDREN.

We are all sinners, but that is NOT A FREE RIDE for
PRIEST PEDOPHILES.

How dare they attempt to insinuate their rules on women when they are sodomizing and raping children.

If you choose to listen and obey such creeps and monsters, that is your choice. But I say yank these monsters out from behind their robes and MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE. They-like the pope-should be held to the same laws as everyone else.


John H   March 31st, 2010 3:29 pm ET

@ A.Smith 7:00 pm, March 30.....You set yourself up as an expert in nearly all things but your have erred in at least two ways in your 7:00 pm comment.....(1) While Catholics do kneal and kiss the ring on the Pope's hand, they do not pray to him or worship him. As you correctly pointed out, the Pope is belived to be the earthly successor and the final authority on all things relating to the Church. In the Gospel according to Matthew Chapter 13 – 19, Jesus says that "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jo-na: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto theem but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." What Jesus is saying here is that Peter is the cornerstone upon which he will build his church. The Catholic Church holds that the Pope's who succeded Peter also carry the authority given by the Lord Jesus himself. Now Jesus didn't do this knowing that Peter was without sin. Just the opposite. He was for example aware that once betrayed Judas into the hands of the Romans that Peter would deny knowledge of Christ three times before the cock crowed. Peter of course denied he would ever do such a thing but as it turns out, Peter did deny Christ three times. So in establishing his Church on earth, Jesus was clearly aware of the sinful nature of man but despite that he chose Peter to lead his church. Now, no one who has his or her eyes open would deny that there has been more than enough sin on the part of Catholics and all Christians. The Inquisition and the Crusades are obvious examples of this. The abuse of children by Priests is clearly another although much more awareness of this has come to pass in recent decades. The point is this. If you believe in Jesus and that he is the Son of God sent by the Father to die for our sins, they you cannot logically deny his Church. Condem the sinners but dispose of his Church at your own peril. Now you may not be a Christian or you may be one that was at one time a member of the church. Obviously you have every right to believe as you will but I would ask you not to denounce the Church because of the sins of it's leaders or members. There is considerably more good done by the Church than evil. Punish the evil but praise the good.
(2) You claim that Catholics worship the Pope. I realize that in many Protestant Churches, it is taught that Catholics are idol worshipers who worship images of the Mother Mary and the Saints. It is obviously true that no Catholic Church is complete without representations of Mary and the Saints but Catholics do not worship them. To understand what is happening from the viewpoint of a Roman Catholic, Mary and the Saints are to be venerated. If you look the word up in the dictionary you will find that it means "to regard with respect and reverence." The word vernerable as a title in China is a good example of the meaning of the word. Now clearly, Christ had an earthly mother and many human followers. If you believe Jesus is the Son of God, then it naturally follows that you would show respect for those he chose to surround himself with. Many non-Catholics would say you can only pray to God or Jesus Christ the Son of God and not to Mary or the Saints. I would beg to differ and see nothing sinful about asking for the intercession of Mary and the Saints. Not doing this in lieu of praying to God but in addition to. In my mind, as a sinner, you can't have too many things going for you and God will not condemn you for asking for those closest to Jesus to put in a good word for you. Sorry to have made this so long but I just had to get this off of my chest. In an earlier comment I made yesterday, I stated that this site has more than a few atheist and anti-Catholics speaking out and I am not just guessing on this. Many of the regulars openly claim this and proudly too, I might add. So, as an American aware of the concept of Freedom of Speech, I encourage you to continue to speak your beliefs. I have exercised my right here and hope that at least a couple people who read this will see that there is always another side to the story.


Gwen   March 31st, 2010 3:32 pm ET

To Rick,

I never said it was okay to kill anyone. You're off point.

What I do say is that I laugh in the face of a church who attempts to impose their will on women's bodies while they themselves are sodomizing and raping children.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:39 pm ET

malachy

Thank you for your condolences..I am sorry I cannot, nor will not, support a system that man has invented and is corrupt..they all are... Be kind as you appear to be to your family, neighbors, and friends and you will have a very sanctified life...you don't need to put goodness that you possess into the hands of those you really don't know....your church...and its form of political polemics...not fair to you and certainly not to those who suffered and died in the name of their brand of corporate greed and political aspirations...You do know they all compete for titles, correct? Why? What's the point..if there are no winners? .


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:51 pm ET

March 31st, 2010 2:14 pm ET
Cajazz76:24:8, mankind has been in search of the true God always. You are righ in saying "there are more religions than there are political parties in the U.S", even within Catolicism there are different opinions about "how to". BUT, we are on the right path searching for perfection. And THANK GOD I have the Catholic Church that did teach me what to do so I did not need to re-invent "the wheel" of life. I did avoid a geat many mistakes, and understood where the bad consequences came from... Not having the Catholic Church, for me, would be like having no parent...
Rick...

I guess you were never informed that God was found...under a piles of rocks...stoned...unwilling to tolerate any further the SILLY HUMAN RACE....In having the Catholic Church for many was found to be their parents...Priest and Nun... Daddy and Mommy.. in denial...SILLY HUMAN RACE..


sesansenkoya   March 31st, 2010 3:53 pm ET

too bad


sesan senkoya   March 31st, 2010 3:58 pm ET

If the father is still alive, he should face the music


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 3:59 pm ET

STEPHEN NORMAND

THANK YOU ! Your contribution is the most inspiring for truth and relevance of all these blogs..opinions as they are...I stand tall and applaud you and your honesty and have not a single ounce of doubt of its validity...Again my sincere thank you...and I am sure you have helped so many you cannot count...you are an inspiration to me, for sure....caj


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 4:00 pm ET

The Smoking Gun and crucial to the Kentucky lawsuit against the Vatican is the 1962 document "Crimen Sollicitationis" — Latin for "crimes of solicitation." It describes how church authorities should deal procedurally with cases of abuse of children by priests.

"This document and its predecessors make it an ex-communicable offense to reveal any knowledge of allegations that a priest has sexually abused,"

The existence of Crimen did not become publicly known until 2003, when a lawyer noticed a reference to the document while reading a 2001 letter written by Benedict, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. McMurry is seeking to subpoena Ratzinger's letter, which instructed all bishops to send cases of clerical sex abuse to him and to keep the proceedings secret.

This DIRECTLY Refutes POPE RATZ's PUBLIC STATEMENT THAT HE KNEW NOTHING, it directly implies Pope Ratz formerly as Cardinal Ratz knew EVERYTHING about the thousands of clerical sex abuse cases which were all sent to his office.

In 2008, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals gave the go-ahead for Kentucky lawsuit to continue, ruling that an exception to sovereign immunity, which shields most foreign governments from U.S. lawsuits, should be applied.

Place Pope Ratz under Oath and then question that corrupt man about what he knew, and what he did in regards to the widespread sexual abuse of parish children by Vatican clerics.


carol   March 31st, 2010 4:09 pm ET

This is Holy Week. Catholics all over the world use this week to commorate the death of Jesus. This program could have been aired next week. Nobody & I mean nobody has done more to rid the church of these crimes & filth than Pope Benedict XVI! The media frenzy over this is sad. Please don't take away the honor we bestow on our Lord by discussing this topic 2 days before Good Friday. I pray for the victims & the healing power of forgiveness.

Thank you.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 4:30 pm ET

@Frank h..

Is that little 'h' for just a little hell you will suffer after you die for publicly avowing your support for someone who wore a NAZI uniform...and denied he was one...someone who negated and ignored the pleas of abused children in lieu of forgiving those who were never adjudicated for a crime or hundred's of crimes they committed against innocents...someone who you would pray for... who urinated on the legal systems of the world...someone who is a purveyor of what is immoral and indecent in this world and within his own damn realm..the Vatican, itself.?.You read pal, and stop trying to sell anyone on your political polemics? What is the little 'h' stand for? That's all I want to know.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 4:42 pm ET

USAToday: The bishops gathered for their semi-annual meeting and also heard a preliminary report on the "causes and contexts" of the clergy sexual abuse scandal that resulted in some 14,000 abuse claims
that cost the church $2.6 billion since 1950.

Cardinal Ratz now Pope Ratz was in charge of the Vatican office for many years during which those reports and hush money pay-off's would have flowed and is stating HE WAS UNAWARE of the Thousands of Child Rape allegations from Vatican Clergy.


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 4:43 pm ET

RICK - You entirely misunderstand my point. No doubt, there are bad parents. But parenthood itself is not corrupt or fraudulent.

The church has victimized people over and over and over again. Donahue did it again last night. Yet, the church wants to play the part of the victim. Someone else said "oh, people who call the church evil just need to find a demon." That's exactly what the church has been doing for thousands of years. Finding evil in other people from which it can sell its brand of supposed "salvation." Being Catholic is your choice. I'm not here to make you change your choices. I wouldn't expect to be able to. That is why I wished you "Good Luck."

McMARGIE - No I have not sat through a "Catholic Mass" where priests and deacons said things about sexual abuse. You couldn't pay me enough money to walk into a Catholic Church. In my opinion, it is a den of criminality. I am sure they do say wonderful things. Lots of people say wonderful things. It doesn't translate into good deeds. They say what they need to say to keep the money flowing.

You ask whether I'm aware of the church's charitable work. Yes, I am. This is of the same nature as those "wonderful things" the priests and deacons say - intended to make a showing to keep up the front that it's a good and kind and generous body. It isn't. No amount of rhetoric or the throwing of a charitable bone would convince me otherwise.

Does any of this mean you need to believe as I do? No. Of course not. It's still a free country. You do what you want. But, in my opinion, the church is just organized crime, much like the mafia. They sometimes put up a good front, too.

Good luck.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 4:44 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8

Everything man made is corrupt from the Kings court to the beggars breakfast. Don't delude yourself and look at this while ignoring that.

There are shills on this forum that I can see. The ones who keep writing over and over again the same hate, inaccuracies, falsehoods and drivel.

The bottom line. The Catholic Church is not the "cause" of sexual abuse or THE source. The Church is one of many , many sources of sexual abuse against children in the past, hopefully not in the present. BUT everyday children are still being abused by pedophiles and their institutions.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 4:47 pm ET

I wonder why some on this forum keep posting over and over about the sexual abuse against the Catholic Church, its fact and FICTION. YET ignoring the greater problem of sexual abuse in the communities and across all institutions for children. Classic diversion and scapegoating behavior. This is really disturbing to me.

Why do YOU protest so much? What are you hiding?


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 4:54 pm ET

Favorite Twitter Comment in regards to the utterly corrupt Pope Ratz as being a (Im) Moral authority:

Pope Ratz as a Moral authority . . . . from a former Hitler Jugend and current pedophile-protector? This is a joke, right?


Mona   March 31st, 2010 4:57 pm ET

@malachy
Maybe because this discussion is about the permissive climate of pedophilia in the Catholic Church not sexual abuse in general. Why are you so defensive? What are you hiding?


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 4:59 pm ET

@ malachy, since it clearly appears that Pope Ratz is LIEING thru his teeth in publicly stating he wasn't aware of the thousands of sexual abuse cases (which he appeared to have cross his desk at the Vatican and issued huge monetary hush money requests for).

Perhaps you'd suggest to Pope Ratz to be deposed UNDER OATH and truthfully answer the US Court questions about what he knew, what he did and how deeply he was involved in the Sex Abuse of Children by Vatican Clergy.


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 5:09 pm ET

Indeed, there is no shortage of crime. The fact that the Catholic Church is a criminal enterprise does not mean there is no other criminal entity or activity. Nobody ever said otherwise.


malachy   March 31st, 2010 5:22 pm ET

To A. Smith, Oregon,

If an independent investigative committee finds that is the way to go and have the POPE testify under oath, then I am all for it!!

In the meantime, out of respect for the victims , their families and many, many good priests and religious people out there, knock off your hate filled rants. It feels like hate speech to me. If you keep writing 10-20-30 posts against the Catholic church and a lot of it is disputable and lies, then in my opinion it has another purpose besides a simple opinion. Here's a thought: (Tongue in cheek) Write about the problems of the Jewish faith, Israel,the banks and the media and and all of those associated myths, lies and half truths for a while.

There is a lot of hatred and lies being spread across all the media and this is causing harm to a lot of people. Stay focused on the bigger picture (current global events) and those people who are covering up sexual abuse against children everywhere. This is a BIG social, global problem. The amount of hatred written by you feels like it has another purpose besides getting your point across.

You have made your point 100 times.


Mona   March 31st, 2010 5:27 pm ET

@ mcmargie
Re. the Charter....It's worth nothing to the bishops who wrote it.

"Cardinal Francis E. George OMI, archbishop of Chicago, was elected president of the USCCB, although four boys say they were sexually abused by Rev. Daniel McCormack after George learned of abuse allegations in early 9/05, and after the cardinal's own review board had told him on 10/15/05 to remove McCormack. The priest was arrested on 1/20/06; he pled guilty without apology on 7/2/07 to abusing five boys and was sentenced to five years in prison. The archdiocese faced no sanctions...."


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 5:33 pm ET

@jack
I sincerely apologize if I offended you. I was speaking about
you. I wanted you to get a copy of my opinion to A. Smith, Oregon.
There was another blogger who said that a priest molested or rape
200 children but that this incident was only one. There are
4,100 priests he said and if we multiply 200 by 4,100 the total
of children molested will be 800,000. That is not fair.
A. Smith is full of statistics A-La-Google about the blogs
that appear on CNN- Statistics and common sense are two
different subjects. A. Smith does not only want to inform us
about Christians' wrongdoing to children including sexual abuse .
I believe that that is not her intent. Her crusade is to smear
the whole hemisphere with Anti-Christian propaganda and
fortunately or unfortunately she got plenty of ammunitiong to
shoot and reload with the latest child sex abuse scandal. You
don't have to be a Christian to notice A Smith wrath against
Crhistianity even before this incident happened if you read all
her blogs. Even any Atheist with a concience can deduct her
intentions. She is a a very bright person and well-informed
but I believe that something personal is bothering her. It is
not like you, Cajazz, Dodie and others about this subject.
There is plenty of room for compromise. When we vent our
anger indiscriminately it is something that may border on
and wrath and vendetta( persecution).

But even A. Smith is not always blind and stubborn to the
point that she becomes oblivious to reality and the truth.
She too many times writes with franknes and fairness
trying to avoid prejudice and bias. She more than often sticks
to "breaking news" (lol) statistics.
.

What I'm trying to say is that we cannot, we should not
or we may not generalize to zero tolerance when we pick
on a person or group as for us to be completely detached from
compromise, decorum, decency and fairness. " My worst enemy
deserves my compassion and I will cross the rooad to try to
rescue him/her/ them from being overrun by an upcoming
vehcile(s). That is me, but you don't have to be like me. I learned
that from my father and I also worked in human relations for
more than 20 years. I cannot ruled out innocence beyond
reasonable doubt in any case. You are innocent until proven
guilty and even after you are declared guilty our system provides
for us to try to prove our innocence with mitigating circumstances
or with a good lawyer (court of appeals). Dodie knows more
about me than most of you. She may be albe to vouch for me.
But I will not demand that she do so, either.

I'm not a position to be perfect. Sometimes I have gone
to great extremes to condemn the GOP, Sarah Palin and the
Tea Party movement but I'm always looking for ways to see
if I have enough evidence to accuse, prosecute and convict.
And my answer is no.
To you, to A. Smith and to all that I may seem to contradict
in harsh but unitendended terms, I submit my sincere
apologies. We are not here to argue to the point that we create
hard feelings, disdain, malice and hatred. I believe that 95
percent of the bloggers are just trying to change the world
for better, not for worse.
Jack. I'm so glad that you questioned by opinion because
it gives me a chance for reflection, reconsider and retreat in
most cases. Not load, shoot, reload and shoot again A-La
Sarah Palin.
To you, A. Smith, Dodie, Ted and all
Always your friend even more when we civily disagree.

P.S.

Keep in touch, and try to read my comments. I promise that
I will always read yours even if disagree with your opinion.
Remember that we are not getting paid but even when I was
on a salary, I was never over aggressive.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 5:35 pm ET

Reporting news around the world is not hateful rants @ malachy, it is informing readers about this specific topic of this blog, namely the widespread sexual abuse of children in America and around the world by Vatican clerics.

You wanted Global Events?

Read my previous post on the German Poll that was recently done in regards to their lack of Faith in Pope Ratz.

Read my previous post on the USATODAY report on the Catholic Bishop meeting.

Read my previous post on the Munich, German paper which is now investigating the Vatican's sexual abuse of children in Germany.

Read my previous post on The Catholic Church in Denmark which is now investigating the Vatican's sexual abuse of children in Denmark.

Even the Vatican is not denying that these didn't take place.

How involved was Pope Ratz in the abuse of children under the Vatican's care?

Pope Ratz's older brother has already publicly stated he abused children under his care and I certainly hope a German Court deposes Georg Ratz and finds out what he Truthfully did to children in the German Vatican choir under his care.


Gerald Jolly   March 31st, 2010 5:48 pm ET

Just four questions for all you BIBLE THUMPING supporters of the Catholic Pope.

How much wealth did Jesus Christ bring unto himself while he travelled through the holy land.

Was his?? CARRIAGE?? studded with gold and jewels.

Did he have a young child to molest with him all the time..

How many wagons did he require to carry around his wardrobe of fine silks and shoes made of the best of leather.

If you can answer any of the above four questions in a positive way!!

I WILL YIELD TO YOUR BELIEFS!

BETTYACANT HU!


Niko the Farmer   March 31st, 2010 6:05 pm ET

GERALD -

Ultimately, the goal of every criminal enterprise is the amassing of wealth and the personal pleasure of its principals. This defines the Catholic Church.

If Jesus were to walk the earth today, I suspect he would condemn the Catholic Church (although I do not think he would condemn its followers, necessarily). But, what is more, I think the Catholic Church would condemn him first.


A. Smith, Oregon   March 31st, 2010 6:18 pm ET

@ Niko the Farmer, I certainly agree with your sentiments in regards to what Jesus would think about Christianity and what the Catholic Church would actually do if Jesus returned, namely condemn him as the anti-Christ and work to either destroy or murder him.

@ Niko, I believe that Jesus would vomit in the nearest trash bin upon learning of the millions of deaths that have occurred by the followers of self-labeled Christian priests, clerics, pastors and ministers around the world. And likely Jesus would also vomit in the nearest trash bin upon learning of all the self-labeled Christian priests that have sexually abused innocent children in their care.

@ Niko the Farmer wrote, 'Ultimately, the goal of every criminal enterprise is the amassing of wealth and the personal pleasure of its principals. This defines the Catholic Church.'


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 6:21 pm ET

malachy

The Catholic Church without people is not an institution....it is the church sponsored cover ups at the center of this debate. To use the fear of God to infiltrate the innocents of children is criminal and vile, to deny it occurred is equally such. Then to freely hand your ALMIGHTY DOLLARS to the institution abetting the cover-ups is, at the least, remarkable.

I see, by your opinions, you are a decent person and we all wonder where it is we go from here. To put the sanctity of a child's trust into the hands of a molester should send one message only...eliminate the core problem and start over. I have a 100% belief that your God or your Jesus don't give a Ratz behind about the Catholic Church.


bette   March 31st, 2010 6:26 pm ET

the Pope is getting old, he may not live long..maybe the next Pope will clean up the mess.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 7:00 pm ET

In Germany to renounce your religion you must formally declare your intent to the German government...There has been a 300% increase in the number of Catholics joining this group in the last few month's...RECOVERING CATHOLICS.

They will spend the rest of natural lives in recovery...but they will not have to part of a corrupted system anymore. To those who wish to deny this is current speak our minds. Political Polemics are at the center of your holy and apostolic CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia   March 31st, 2010 9:18 pm ET

Happy Easter everyone.
And to my Jewish friends, a belayted Happy Passover


Idzan Ismail, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia   March 31st, 2010 9:21 pm ET

belated. Typo error.


jack   March 31st, 2010 9:29 pm ET

@Jean...If they are so interested in serving God, a good first step might be to remove themselves from a den of serpents and child rapists. Not saying there are not a lot of fine people within the Catholic Church, but that is why they should quit supporting this ugly, lying Institution. Peace.


jack   March 31st, 2010 9:35 pm ET

@Bette...They have had about 2,000 years to "clean up the mess."
Too many lying, child rapist priests, and enabling leaders. What do you need to see that it is corrupt and evil, Jesus decending on a cloud and shouting it in your ears?


jack   March 31st, 2010 9:46 pm ET

@Luis B Rosario..Apology accepted. I was wondering why you mentioned violence in the post. I have never called for any act of violence against anyone. Those accused of real wrong doing deserve a fair trial, and I do not support the death penalty even for them. But life sentences at hard productive labor for particulary violent and heinous crimes , is something I would support. Peace, amigo.


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 10:03 pm ET

@
Idzan Ismael, Kuala Lumpour,
Malaysia
Happy Easter to you too, friend.


jack   March 31st, 2010 10:25 pm ET

Jesus said a good tree does not bring forth evil fruit. That can be applied to any church. I am not singling out the Catholic Church. There have been other churches, and indeed many othe religions and new age groups etc. that have had corruption. But just saying, if any institution is rife with corruption, that is a good indicator that something is not right. And I would not want to support them on a moral basis. As Gerald Jolly alluded, why do they have such an abundance of wealth and live in such luxury, while their poor parishoners often live in squalor. Jesus , according to the gospels, never operated like that. So who are they supposed to represent. Why would you continue to support them , until they sell a large part of their vast reserves of wealth and distribute it to the poor , instead of exploiting them further?


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 10:44 pm ET

Luis B. Rosario

It is estimated that during the 601years of the Papal Inquisition there were an estimated 68,000,000 people murdered by the Catholic Church, they killed more Jews than Hitler and were the first ones to introduce to the New World slavery....three facts the Catholic Church will not dispute..they have during the Papal Reign of John Paul II admitted and had apologized for these events in history...

How many Hail Mary's and Our Father's would that take to be contrite?

The Apolostic Church had preceded the Catholic Church in much larger numbers and were a large part of those who were murdered during the Inquisition by the Catholics..

Oh, the 68,000,000 estimated murdered during the Inquisition was in the ballpark of the estimated 50-70 million estimated killed during WWII. Silly Human Race....The list of historical data that is so extensive I would be typing for weeks to inform you...


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 10:53 pm ET

@Jack
The Vatican has a vast wealth of assets as a centralized entity.
Protestant ministers and pastors have more assets as in
individuals than the any priest in the Catholic church. But they
are not out giving their money to the poor, either. My cousin
became a minister as a protestant. Five years later, he had
three cars including a new Mercedes; two houses with land
and he sent his children to South America to become medical
doctors. (One of them is a well known plastic surgeon ). Not
bad for rookie minister.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:08 pm ET

@Rick

Here is your reply to your asking me if I knew what happened to Catholics in Communist countries....read the history regarding the Inquisition and you find yourself bleeding internally about the brain...above is a tiny taste..


Lauretta   March 31st, 2010 11:15 pm ET

Interesting, Cajazz, since there were only 70 to 100 million people in all of Europe at that time. Wonder who they got to bury all the bodies?

If you Google the question about Inquisition deaths, most say that the total deaths were in the thousands over that period.

Also, are you aware that our country has killed about 50 million babies in 37 years?


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:25 pm ET

Luis B Rosario

What your cousin had in wealth, so did the clergy of the Catholic Church until the church decided to eliminate it and thus the 'advent' of of celibacy and no marriage...and a 'host' of problems the Catholic Church is dealing with today...besides the abandonment of parishioners..thus a fall in revenue...thus a greater self-imposed, church induced tax on the faithful. My dear friend it is always about the MONEY..first.. and..always.


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 11:27 pm ET

@Cajazz
The human race history is replete with stories of genocide,
some for religion and some for greed and power. 50-70
million killed during World War Two by other tthan the
Caholic church is a great number of atrocities that hardly
anybody knows or the ones that know don't watn to talk
about it. I hardly used statistics on my blogs because they
are a doulbe edge sword. The Romans scorch the earth,
Alexander went all the way to India to rape and plunder;
Ghegis Khan was a murderous hun, Hitler was not Catholic.
China had its own share. You it in Servia, you saw it in Vietnam,
You know what the Spanish armada did to Hawaiian
Polyniesian women. They also ransacked South America
and killed all the Maya and the Astec Inidans in the Yucatan
peninsula of Mexico. About 125, 000 died of chicken Pox.
English colonits, the French and the Dutch killed the other
Indians in North America. All these atrocities cannot be
justified, for any reason , or pretext. We are always promising
that we will do better next time. If we look around us-Hugo
Chavez in Venezuela,' Fidel and Raul Castro in Cuba, the
Ortegas in Nicaragua, Memo Perez in Bolivia, roaming gangs
in El Salvador. In all these catastrophes and anomalies we
cannot blame the Catholic church or any other church for the
horrific behavior of the human race ("silly humans as you
call them).


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:31 pm ET

Lauretta

Who said the Inquisition was isolated to Europe? They killed in the Middle East and Africa and the Far East...they had no boundaries... I will prove your thousands figure to be a Catholic apparition...hold tight a bit.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:44 pm ET

Lauretta...not to argue just present the info...much the way the Bible has since it was written..rewritten..re-rewritten.etc

: ROMAN CATHOLIC ATROCITIES PART 2
Dec 25, 2009 ... They accepted the money and still decreed that all Jews be killed as per the Alhambra decree of 1492, .... It is estimated that there were over 68 million victims of the Roman Catholic inquisition from its beginning in 1200AD. ... The “IHS” stamped on the Catholic host bread used during Mass, ...
Democide and genocide as rent-seeking activities..


Luis B Rosario   March 31st, 2010 11:45 pm ET

@Cajazz
Dode, jack, and you don't get it . Do you, my friend. I'm well
informed on those issues. ( I guess) The reason I used these
examples is to show you the correlation and likeness of all
manking capable of committing gonocide and murder regardless
their clan. You keep shooting me with the same bullet. Every
time I write a line you guys reinforced with "it is all the Catholic
church fault." No. It is our falt . Priests are not trained to be
bad, or criminals during their training for ordination. Neither
are protestant leaders. Their greed and their criminal behavior
is due to individiualism and possibly their cynical minds before
they were ordained. It is the same in politics and any other
profession. I'm not defending anybody that committed a heinous
crime, child rape, or child molestation. I'm an advocate against
discrimination of the masses that we use as a scapegoat,
not individual cases of wanton, intentional behavior by any
entity.


Cajazz76:24:8   March 31st, 2010 11:57 pm ET

Luis B. Rosario

If I were to blame you for all the wars this country was in, would be totally unfair..to blame your government for insidious involvement in wars that had no valid cause would be their fault..the government?

Is their any huge difference in government and politics? Blaming the church or the government is really blaming the leadership of either...true?

So don't take it personal when your church is being hammered on, it definitely is not in very good hands at the moment..

Please take a moment and think about the events that Carl Ratzinger has been involved in and just ask yourself if he were elected, as in a Democracy, would you cast your vote in his favor, today?


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 12:13 am ET

Luis B. Rosario

I want to say that if fear of the unknown had manifested itself without the corrupt devices religion had imported and exported into it, then a valid way to self control the masses would one that could fit all the asses in this world, much like a girdle..with subtle restraint for some and with one hell of a battle for others. It is a self policing entity, but it is a bigger danger than a deterrent... Your a good man Luis...you do not need a pope or a priest or a bishop or a cardinal or a monsignor to be you...maybe a canary to keep you company would be suffice...


Dodie   April 1st, 2010 1:09 am ET

@ Luis B. Rosario

I am not mocking religion or the church. The concerns I do have is as long as the church, synagogue, mosque, and its members continue to cover-up horrific behaviors of individuals (priests) in this case, the atrocities will continue against innocent children that will affect them all the way to the grave. My concern is STOPPING this behavior. The church does NOT make bad people or priests.

Because, Priests have the "word of god" which places them at a level compared to none other... it would stand to reason this position would also attract some with less than benevolent means. As long as the Church uses Silence, repression, and prevarication as a means to knowingly conceal truth from the people, there will be no change!

Children will continue to be molested by priests until the end of time.
How tragic is that? How horrific is that?


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 1:38 am ET

@Dodie
The song says that "if you don't know me by now," you never,
never will." In other words. You don't have to convince me
of anything that I already know. You know my background.
My opinions are not words that are choking me and that
I have to spit them out. I, in no way, shape or form Am trying
to defend the church, or any other institution for something
that was substantiated with empirical evidence. What I don't
like is the suggestive persecution of innocent people that live
under the same roof than the perpetrator
We have to police the police but we
cannot afford to be police, prosecutor and judge at the same
time for the same case.It will be a conflict of interest.


Dodie   April 1st, 2010 1:48 am ET

@ Luis B Rosario

You are absolutely correct. You know my job was involved in Child sex crimes for several years. I completely agree. It is sad. It is tragic. Because of our laws, often our hands were tied. I could not do a damn thing and I hated it! So, I fully understand! I had to leave a home once with a 13 year old still in that home knowing that her step father who was right there was molesting her. We could not do a damn thing. The police or myself. We were all trapped by the law! I still have nightmares of that case...


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 2:05 am ET

@Cajazz I appreciate your concern and your advice.
But I will not destroy my house because I found termintes
in some of the walls. My best approach will be to exterrminate
the wood boring insects, repair the walls and continue
living in the house. I will not walk away from the church. The
church can be repaired without destroying it.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 2:05 am ET

Luis B. Rosario

Always a danger to mix and discuss religion and politics...We have been able to maintain a cordial atmosphere in doing so..interpreting each others write is not the same as being next to each other and shouting it out..Like you once told me, the more you try and fix something the more it can become convoluted..or wise words you gave me to that effect.. Always a friend to you Luis and the utmost respect...always.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 2:28 am ET

Luis B Rosario

Remember when I said it is the congregation that is the church. Think of the many times when church was over, the priest went his way and the people went theirs.. They would stand and chat outside and just shoot the breeze and laugh and enjoy each other's company...that is what it is all about with religion to me..those moments...with no angst..no fear..a nice sense of calm contemplation...peace...and friends...like you Luis..


malachy   April 1st, 2010 3:57 am ET

To:carol
Yes, this was done over passover ( sadly never newsworthy) and yes it was spiteful.


Sharon   April 1st, 2010 7:14 am ET

With all due respect, Luis-too bad those boys cannot be repaired.

The Church is nothing without its people. The people ARE the Church, along with God. God was not there with those priests while those children were being abused.

Repair? Hah.


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 9:18 am ET

@Cajazz
I feel very happy that we found common grounds to our
discussion. Yes, politics and religion are two savage topics
that can evolve into chaos. I try to thread lightly on those
trouble waters where the undertow can be more dangerous
than the high waves. You don't want to be pulled under
by unexpected currents. Many expert swimmers succumbed
that way." This is a very touchy subject because like the
health care reform bill and the gay rights bill there are
always people who have "an axe to grind." Like you say
that I once said, " the subject may get tainted and convoluted
by people who know too much, or by people that think that
they know too much. "
I sincerely appreciate your response and I also extend
to you an olive branch" as a true gesture of our friendship.
" Like you said

Luis


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 10:34 am ET

@Sharon
With all due respect back to you." Thanks for your politeness.

I'm not going to ask you about your religion or if your Atheist,
or non-denominational. It has nothing to do with the subject
(topic). What we need here is patience(something that most
cannot afford due to the urgency of the matter that must people
appear to be wanting it resolved in 3 days), we need common
sense and we need civility and impartiality. Nobody will dare
to use the impartiality tool regarding this issue-we are all afraid to
say too little or too much for fear of repercussion. Remember
that this is a public forum over international air waves. " you have
the right to remain silent. Everything you say can and will be used
against you. (similar to the Miranda Bill of Rights). Anyway, like
Ted said in another blog I have a tendency to ramble on and
by the time I want to summarize what I wanted to say I already
forgot. lol.
We are a Democratic nation but even in Europe caution has
been exercise regarding this matter. Contrarary to the believe
of some bloggers, talk show jokeys and commentators this is
not the story of the 'human blood sucking vampire' to be
killed with a single dagger trust to the heart while the bat -man
like mammal is sleeping, or you may try waving a cross in front
of it and hope that it melts into dust." This is a very serious
matter and we can comment all we want (without provoking
the masses to form a posse and go lynch "Pope Ratz" as
A Smith-Oregon calls him).
" Due respect," as you gracefully wrote is something lacking
in many bloggers." We are nasty, we are disrepectful and we
become violent. We no longer are rational. We want to kill the
rapist and the child molester without due process. We want
the Pope to resign. We want the Vatican to give away all its
money to the poor; just go the bank and cash all the gold ,
assests and the currency; sell all the Michangello sculptures
and master pieces, tear the church down and all the "pedophile"
maladies will be cured for once and forever." This is reasoning
is naive irresponsible and provocative.
When Jesus Christ was preaching and He told the gentiles
and his disciples, " I will tear this temple down and rebuild it
in three days," to get rid of corruption, malice, even murder
within the existing church elders and its followers, He didn't
mean that He will wave a magic wand, or point his finger and
instantly destroy the temple and then physically reconstruct
it in three days." (Not that I know off). As far as I'm concerned
Jesus Christ was literally speaking about taking swift and
prompt and proper action to clean the church of evil, corruption
and malfeasance. Did He do it within three days? I don't know.
But according to the Scriptures, he took a whip and began
chasing all the high priests and their entourage out of the
temple. (Contrary to our understanding of justice, He was
very strict and a very rightful prophet but he was not the common
politician, the prosecutor, or judge. He dealt justice fairly and
seriously . He could be very tough at times but He was
also kind, generous, forgiven and compassionate. It didn't
mean that he was weak and laissez -faire in dealing with crime
and punishment. He just believed in due process protecting
the rights of the innocent and the rights of the accused
and the convicted.
That said.
BISHOPS say: File Criminal complaints , News from
Nation and the World, Associated Press (St Petersburg
Times." 04/01/10)
VATICAN CITY
Swiss bishops urge victims of clerical abuse to file criminal
complaints and are considering creating a national registry
for pedophile priests, as Austria's senior bishop celebrates
a Holy Week Mass of repentence," according to the St Petersburg
A week after Pope Benedict XV1 excoriated Irish bishops
fir gross errors of judgment in handling cases of priests who
sexually abuse children. European bishops are admitting
mistakes, reaching out to victims and promising to act quickly
when they learn about abuse cases, " writes the Associated
Press via the St Petersburg Times.

THIS IS ALL WE CAN ASK FROM A RESPONSIBLE ENTITY.
THE DAYS OF THE POSSEs AND LYCHINGS WITHOUT
DUE PROCESS ARE OVER. I'm certain that all those accused
of perpetrating crimes by church members, not only against
children but children will have a priority, will be investigated,
processed and adjudicated by proper authorities and a court
of law. " There is no conspiracy here to sweep crimes under
the rug," as wrongfully and viciously expressed by irresponsible
media and zealots in an attempt to smear the legitimacy of
the church and its followers.


Lauretta   April 1st, 2010 10:55 am ET

Cajazz,
Your sources are very different from mine. I looked up some of this in my old 1984 World Book. The numbers are very small and much was done by the governments of these countries, not just the Church. The 1492 edict was to EXPEL the Jews, not kill them. Yes, that was wrong but not quite the same as exterminating them.

Considering the fact that atheists killed about 250 million people in the 20th century, I guess that the Church, even with your figures, is still the "lesser of two evils"!

I am a convert from atheism and converted for intellectual reasons, not emotional ones. Have been a Catholic for 35 years and don't plan to leave. I see people distort the facts continuously about the Church so I don't pay much attention to the media feeding frenzy about all of this.

For example, someone earlier was stating that the Pope's brother admitted to molesting boys. The fact is that some boys in the Regensburg Choir stated that they had been molested in the past. That happened to be the same choir that the Pope's brother directed, only not during the time of the abuse. But he is damned for merely being at the same place at a different time.

The media has no love for the Christianity and are going to spin things in a negative way whenever possible. MSNBC just had an article titled something about Pope admitting to fondling boys. But when one reads the article, it was about another German priest. They did retract the headline and apologize but a lot of people I'm sure read the original and think that is what happened.

I know people who know this Pope–he is a wonderful man. He may have not made the best decisions in every instance about the sex abuse situation but he was doing that which was normal for that period of time. The culture was not in favor of exposing one's"dirty laundry" in public and dealt with many things under the cloak of secrecy. Ask your older family members. They will have stories to tell about how embarrassing things in the family were kept hidden.


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 11:35 am ET

@ Dodie,
Cajazz,
Jack, Ted

You are always so attentive to detail and reconsideration.
"We could tear the temple down and rebuild it in three days"
(literally speaking -it means to me that we can have our
differences but if we give it time and reconsider -we get it done.
It doesn't mean that one side won and the other lost-it means
that we reach a happy medium of civility, decorum and fairness."
What else can we ask for druing these of grief, turnmoil and
tribulations. "IF JESUS CHRIST WILL APPEAR AGAIN IN FLESH
BODY AND SOUL, nowadays, we will probably cruxify Him again
under the assumption that He is the devil in disguise."
This statement has nothing to do whether Jesus Christ
resuscitated or not, or whether you believe in Jesus & God or not.
I'm not even going there. ( I just believe that
most people in the world believe that He was a great prophet of
his time who was attempting to remold and re-improve the world
when the world was having the same problems that we have now.).
That is why He was crucified. He was a threat to a corrupt
government and church. Both can be bad at times but most
people in all civiliations through out the world depend on them.
These institusions are manned by humans and humans are
far from perfect. All we can do is demand accountability and
when this fails we will demand justice and retribution from
law enforcement and the courts( which can also be corrupted
and inperfect are times). It is a viious cycle but a necessary evil.

But like the song says " We are the world." We can make
a diffrence with our input, our ideas, our inquiries into the
truth and the proper disposition of our complaints.

Note" Whatever I wrorte here that appears offensive to you,
ignore it. It is not mal-intended. Thanks, my dear friend.


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 11:50 am ET

@ Lauretta
John H .
Jean, McMargie
There are so many intellectutals on these blogs both
in favor and against the church. They are just what we need
to keep a happy medium without tearing each other apart.
Like Lauretta says "just stick to the facts " without insidious
accusations and persecution with evil intent that may bring
us to the brink or being worst than the people we that
we want prosecuted.
Lauretta. Cajazz, Dodie, Ted and Jack can push hard but
they too have a soft side if we work around them. They are
not beasts of the " third kind." Sometimes they just prod you and
push to the limit to see how much you know and how you
respond. God bless you Lauretta and everybody.
Happy Easter!


Lauretta   April 1st, 2010 12:12 pm ET

Luis,
You have the most insightful comments. Thanks for your calm, balanced presentations!

I cannot get too upset with anyone for questioning Christianity since in my teenaged years I was a "Paulette" myself. I have no problem with questioning at all. I get a little distressed with untruths that individuals and the media espouse. I wish people could read correctly and then do a little research–looking for both sides. So often what I see people speaking are either outright lies such as the ones I mentioned earlier or distortions and misapplications of the truth.


Ted   April 1st, 2010 1:00 pm ET

@ Luis B Rosario

You are more than kind to us non-believers, however, you are still writing those long blogs. Have pitty with us, we must read them!

You believe in the Bible, it is your right. How about reading the tales from the Grimm Brothers and Christian Anderson, just to name a few.
All those have some historical base, but mostly are the imagination of the authors.
Add to it the greek mythology, mix it with the ancient egyption Gods and what do you have?
If you believe one you believe all!!!!


Rick   April 1st, 2010 1:31 pm ET

Luis, reading your piece I do deduct that you do state that you are searching for God, the Bible, and an entity like the Catholic Church, but simply don't understand it yourself, or maybe don't want to understand it, or simply like most "non-believers" deterring any discipline imposed or insinuated. Your parents must have had a tough time with you....


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 1:32 pm ET

Lauretta

Luis is a balanced and compassionate individual who sees through the shades of opinions offered within these blogs. Of course, there are those, like myself, who will push to the razor's edge the validity and limits of all dimensions.

It's what has allowed the human race to exploit themselves beyond the boundaries of the earth. Yet, as a population of inhabitants of this planet, we are still locked within the confines of race and religion and politics, the latter two having the latitudes of being co-mingled.

A monogenist would say there is only one race and many say there are 3 or 6 or even 9. There are approximately 6800 languages throughout over 200 countries with about 2300 written variables. Within those figures we have approximately 4300 different religions with more evolving all the time.

As a race, the human race, there has been countless wars and even complete annihilation of a particular order of religion or species within the human race and all done in the name of God, know by many other titles.

We divide ourselves because of belief; we will not allow ourselves acceptance of others in lieu of our beliefs; we fail to recognize wrongs committed by those who lead us in our beliefs. Yet, by a preponderance of our systems in which we believe, we, in so many ways, destroy our own credibility to believe by injecting bias into it.

We have, as a principled leader of faith we call God, who appeared in a book called the bible, which using the above details is a convoluted event to begin with. His appearance is documented in the bible at a time when earth/life was much less populated and complicated, as we view it, in retrospect.

He never appeared or even sent a message in vile times of crisis when multitudes of millions of his creations were dying needlessly and he is praised for his compassion and glory...a loving God still.

It is the obvious I present only to hear the sustained reaction to fear of the unknown I get in response. Tell me how it is that belief is gained, given the factoring in that we are a silly human race?

There is not a single believer in God who is not biased, in regards to what he has learned of his particular religion. We all have the under lying hate for diversity, yet we ask a compassionate God to grant us eternal life...to live amongst whom?

Do we see in the end, of the existence of mankind, a mixing bowl to meld together our idiosyncrasies and differences into a loving and eternity of zero conflict?

It is the desire to allay our fears that I find a more concise meaning for the existence of all religion and, in so many ways, it has prevented some to remain less hateful, but to far too many, the hate has grown within their love of their God to what I see as disciples of an hell on this earth.

It will never be a earth as their God intended, to live together in a harmonious congruence of that love and compassion that is addressed within all those faith's. So it for that reason I will never be a follower because I do not trust the earthly leaders and to purport an existence of a superior single entity leading this silly human race would be a fill in the blank for all................................


Rick   April 1st, 2010 1:47 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, you used so many words to say that you do not understand who God is. You kept going in circles never coming up. You wote: "...Within those figures we have approximately 4300 different religions with more evolving all the time." Do you realize that the human being is searching for God forever? If you are a human being you too are searchng for God. Do you want people to hate you? Do you want people to be rud eto you or beat you up??? No. Even if you kick a dog it would bite you.... Do you get the point? Think .


Sharon   April 1st, 2010 1:53 pm ET

"patience"-Luis??
Like those children that endured the abuse? How many more decades of patience, Luis?
I'm not debating religion, I am debating HUMAN RIGHTS-without which, religion is a moot point.
Children going to church without getting ABUSED, interacting with church leaders without getting RAPED, is what I"m interested in. WHO
among the church is speaking for the victims?? How loud must their cries be, even though those cries are now in the open and have been for so long? GET THE CRIMINALS OUT OF THE CHURCH AND INTO PRISON.


Rick   April 1st, 2010 1:56 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, we cannot recreate human nature. God implanted human nature inside our being. NOBODY can change it, unless you can create new beings from nothing. God manages our human nature. He knows it.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 2:07 pm ET

Rick

For many the search never began. I have no desire for an eternal existence, no imagined euphoric quest, and no fear of dying, with one exception... no extended period of pain prior..and your eternity does not guarantee freedom from it. I see a much simpler end than many, and I want to achieve my imagined end. Beyond it nothing.


Rick   April 1st, 2010 2:15 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8 the search began since yur day 1. You sure don't remember, but the first thing you did was cry when you got born. You wanted to eat and to drink from your mother. You were happy when she held you in her arms. You were glad when you felt protected by your parents and hoped you could always come back to them and that they would hug you and kiss you. keeping you warm. This is all possible because of the One who created us. If you have no far of dying it is because you feel you aren't loved; you got nothing to lose... But if you are loved and feel the true love, you would not like to lose it. Or, you would not like your loved ones to be left in deep sadness because they are will be without you.


Rick   April 1st, 2010 2:18 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8, did you ever look at a living cell under a microscope?


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 2:28 pm ET

Rick

Your mixing together so much you won't even eat it...In essence you are agreeing to the fact we are a silly human race...animals, just the same. I have to ask my cat now if she wants to come along for the ride your offering...Rick, believe in what makes to accept your fate and live in harmony with your family, friends, and neighbors and all life. Don't ever allow yourself to be obligated by others to take up a sword to defend that in which you believe...because then it becomes much less than your salvation.


Rick   April 1st, 2010 2:47 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8 you stated: "In essence you are agreeing to the fact we are a silly human race...animals, just the same." Well, human beings are not silly, and for sure not the same as animals. You also stated: "believe in what makes to accept your fate"; “fate" is not something prescribed, but the direction, the road, is in your hands.

God created us, our human nature, giving us the ability to think, reason and decide freely what we want to do. But also, through the years He did let us know what the consequences for decisions/ steps taken are.

If you kick someone, he won't perceive that as kindness. If you commit adultery, you will suffer evil consequences too; children will suffer and become evil spirited (lack you respect, steal, kill, etc.) because YOU did commit adultery.

The teaching of the Catholic Church is based on the Word of God; the teaching of the Catholic Church is not an improvisation. So, it is not that the Catholic Church invents rules to impose on you, but simply make it known to you the rules of life made clear to us through the Word of God. Simple.

We will NOT be happy if we kill. Talk to women who did commit abortion...they could share their grief with you...

Life has preset rules worth discovering beforehand to prevent ugly mistakes...


Rick   April 1st, 2010 3:01 pm ET

Sharon,

Who will repair the Church?
Who will repair the world?
What basis/ reference should be used to improve this world?


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 3:19 pm ET

Rick

I wish you and all Christians a very Happy Easter.. I have to run and see a friend who is being crucified by his builder.. I will get back into the mix later.....take good care.......


Rick   April 1st, 2010 3:37 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8 thank you. I would like to wish you too a Happy Easter; if you do not believe in Christ, regard it as a celebration of the triumph of Goodness.


Dodie   April 1st, 2010 3:41 pm ET

Luis …et. al ….
Everyone has a right to their belief system. Everyone perceives the world according to their cognitive constructions. I have no personal qualms with the Church per se. My focus is solely on the interruption of child molest behavior. This MUST cease, end, terminate, extinguish immediately. This behavior MUST be Abrogated, annihilated obliterated.

Whether it is due to a priest, a rabbi, a father, mother, brother, sister, or whom ever. The only issue I have with the Church is the deceit in which they use secrecy as a means to cover-up. I am very saddened to know those in high positions at the Vatican knew of the child molesting and made the “conscious choice” to move the priest around realizing he will target other children. This is where I draw the line. Why was this done? I suppose to keep continuity within the church and the disciples happy! I am outraged at this decision as those resulting in horrific crimes perpetrated on the innocent of our culture............... our children who are the future.


Dodie   April 1st, 2010 3:56 pm ET

@ Rick

I have copied the link and will look at it. I am at work right now and must leave. I have read your interactions with others, again to reiterate,I have no problems if we disagree on our belief systems. I just want the child abuse to STOP!!! Plain and simple!


Luis B Rosario   April 1st, 2010 4:09 pm ET

@Ted
With all due respect . When I write a long blog, just read the
first and last line. My blogs do not cover religion only. The Bible
to me and to one billion people is sacred. But the Bible is
not a story book. It is a history book. I don't have time to read
fable books, or books written by Atheists. I don't advise anybody
to read the Bible, nor I ask them to read pasages from the Bible
unless I now for sure that you are a Christian interested on that.
In short (before you scold me again for writing too long). The
Chinese proverb says " To each his/her own." We still could
be friends. I promise that I will never ask to read the Bible. Is that
a deal?

Christiany if under attack. I did not start the Christiany issue
on this or any other blog but I cannot stay idle if you attack.


Sharon   April 1st, 2010 5:08 pm ET

You want to talk philosophy when the CURRENT (not eternal) matter is the children that were abused. I'm not interested in philosophy when it comes to these children. I'm not interested in being told to follow Jesus' teachings as in my way, I already do-they seem do be different from the CHURCH'S. The criminal priests should've followed His teachings. I'm not talking "afterlife". I'm talking the RIGHTS that CHILDREN AND OTHERS have to not have their bodies violated. You're trying to shift the attention.

There is no media dust in my eyes. I see victims.

Nor am I interested in a Vatican PR strategy.

Wrong is wrong. Organized religion is just one more way for people to impose their will on others. Go follow what you will, I don't care. But I do care about my fellow man and what he endures.

And since this conversation has become so diluted and more importantly-off topic of the crimes perpetrated on children-I bid you adieu. Maybe someday the priesthood, the Catholic church and the Vatican will cease to be a haven that feeds, clothes and provides for child molesters. People sneer about welfare? The Church has done all that welfare does, and provide a safe haven for child molesters.

My heart goes out to the victims. It is necessary for healing to have some admit wrongdoing and be held accountable. I hope for their healing and to an end to these monstrous deeds. And the monster that is currently called Pope.


Lauretta   April 1st, 2010 6:09 pm ET

Sharon,
I hope you haven't left this site yet. I am with you in that my biggest concern is for the children. That is why I get distressed when all of the emphasis is placed on abuse in the Catholic Church and very little anywhere else. The abuse of children in the Church is less than one-thousandth of the abuse in this country. The vast majority of the priests who have done inappropriate things only did the action one time. It is a very small number of priests who abused large numbers of people.

If we truly care for the children, we will demand that the media and the law enforcement focus on all of the abuse of children. So much time and energy has been wasted on making everyone angry at the Church when it has had very little to do with the vast majority of abuse. Investigate schools, scouts, Protestant churches and other religions as well. Unfortunately, half of the abuse in this country happens from family members. We need to put in place methods for dealing with this horrible situation while not distrusting every family unit.

When people stop constantly complaining about the Catholic Church and begin looking at all of the abuse of children, I will listen and do all that I can to help.


Dodie   April 1st, 2010 6:32 pm ET

@ Lauretta

My job was child sex abuse investigations for all that you mentioned. We never entered the church. We were not allowed any information. I strongly recommend Child abuse within the confines of any religious sector, whether Christian, Jewish or whatever should also be investigated and regulated.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 7:11 pm ET

Lauretta

Until the world denies or ignores the abuse of children in the Catholic Church you will do nothing???? Sweet Lauretta.....Happy Easter....don't turn around in church on Easter or you may see a child who has been crucified.....


Mona   April 1st, 2010 8:38 pm ET

Rick, I refer you to my previous posting March 31st 5:27pm. Regardless of what is written by the members of the hierarchy we cannot trust that they are actually following through with their OWN guidelines to protect children. The US bishops have no credibility in this matter; the vatican, apparently, has none either.


Lauretta   April 1st, 2010 11:19 pm ET

Dodie,
I have no problem with abuse in the Church being investigated by civil authorities. It would be interesting to get some statistics from you about where the most abuse occurs and see if it agrees with what I have been reading.

Cajazz,
I realize that last sentence of mine sounded bad, but the point I was trying to make is that the focus–in the media at least–seems to be myopically focused on the Catholic Church which probably has fewer cases of abuse than just about any group that deals with children. From what I have read, the Protestants admit to a higher percentage of abuse among their clergy than Catholic priests and there are many more Protestant ministers than Catholic priests. This means that many more children are being abused by Protestant clergy but how much of that do you read about in the news? The same goes for schools. Many teachers have abused children, are moved to different schools, and sometimes have their salaries paid even if they are not teaching. How much press time is given to this group? Then within the family itself. Every person I know personally who was sexually abused was abused by a family member. Not one of them was punished for it. If we are serious about the children, then let's start looking at all abuse. Please.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 1st, 2010 11:39 pm ET

I realized your last sentence was not meant. It does say that literal interpretations can be vastly varied...so can the spoken work. We all have a tolerance level and a varied capacity of interpretation...I do wish you a
Happy Easter and wish you well.....we still are a silly human race. We have such a diverse assessment of our lives within this vast dimension
called the universe..or called by other names, I am sure.


Dodie   April 2nd, 2010 12:18 am ET

Lauretta

You stated: "get some statistics from you about where the most abuse occurs and see if it agrees with what I have been reading."

I cannot give you exact statistics because that is unlawful utilization of a program which we use. However, I can certainly tell you this and anyone else who is reading this blog. No one... No one knows how much information the government has on every individual in this country. It would knock you out of the park. Lets just say this. The computer program I interacted with had more information than you could even imagine. We had access to any person who was sited for anything. Even if a neighbor called and the police never made the visit, that phone call is in the program. 49 out of the 50 states submit the information. Only one state would not comply and I prefer not to mention which state. Our program comes directly out of Washington DC. All I have to do is type in the person's name and any other information I might have. If there was ever a family dispute, DV, argument, bar brawl, Alcohol or Drug related anything, child abuse, If you sneezed wrong or wiped yourself inappropriately .... It is all contained in that program.

I work in a very lucrative county with numerous multi-millionaires, with homes ranging anywhere from 1 million dollars to 50 million dollars. What was interesting.... The poor section of the county was physical abuse. The wealthy sections were sexual abuse


Lauretta   April 2nd, 2010 12:42 am ET

Cajazz,
Thanks so much for the kind words and Happy Easter to you as well!

Dodie,
Wow! I need to get lessons on sneezing and wiping right away!

I have heard of just tragic stories from wealthy families myself. Why, when life is so much easier for them? What would cause people, who have the money to buy anything, abuse children? It makes no sense to me. I always thought the lack of time that many wealthy people spent with their children was tragic, now this as well. How very, very sad.


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 1:01 am ET

Mona,

the Catholic Church is all of us who are Catholics. Clergy is a small fraction, and the main guideline is the Bible being the foundation for other guidelines. Now, who does obey the bible 100 percent? Who is perfect? The main point is that clergy does set guidelines that are correct; they do know and state what is correct. That ALL of them and ALL of us (not being clergy) are following those guidelines 100 percent, I don't think so either just like you do.

We all agree that child molestation, being against God's Word (adultery), is an evil. But to create an image of the management of the Church that implies that the whole Catholic Church is corrupt is not right. That too is against God's Word because it would be a lie.

It is a fact that we expect a lot from priests. We expect them to be better human beings than those who are not priest. So, to hear they commit such a sin (crime) hurts a lot, and naturally it is expected they will be punished.

We do not know though as outsiders how each case is, and because of that we cannot accuse or impose punishment. What if most cases are lies? What if it is not about a kid but about a, maybe, 16 year old who have "enjoyed" "games" that a morally not correct and seduced the situation? We need to know facts before concluding.

We don't know either what happens with "transfers" of involved priests. One thing that can be imagined is that it must be a very heavy burden for the soul of a priest who fell into such temptation; that is written in the Bible. I believe that is much worse than the prison.

Also, again, beware of dirty strategies to destroy the Catholic Church; search “Bella Dodd”. The Catholic Church is one of the first ones that are attacked when there is the intention to establish communism. During an apparition of Virgin Mary in Fatima, She did prophesy that Russia will spread communism in this area if we are not smart enough…

Now this is the tough part; how can we get to know what is really going on?


Dodie   April 2nd, 2010 1:09 am ET

@ Lauretta

You pose a very good question. To be honest with you, I am not sure why. I have noticed in the investigations that many have to do with Uncles, some cousins and even older brothers. Then you have the hard core individuals that pray on the small children residing in wealthy neighborhoods. I have never explored the psychological profile on those individuals as to why they pick wealthy neighborhoods other than there is more space, ability to be unnoticed due to small strips of woods, parks or along the beach. The homes have distance between each with high walls. Therefore the perpetrator is not as easily spotted.... This is what I assume. Remember assume can be written ass-ume!


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 1:10 am ET

Good Friday is a day of meditation for us Catholics. We remember the big sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the proof that true love does exist. Let us hope that all parents will give their kids the love of Christ, making it unnecessary for their children to search for that true love the wrong way, remembering we have all been children…


jack   April 2nd, 2010 1:34 am ET

"Vatican Envisioned Pedo Island Paradise "
"The letter, written by the Rev. Gerald M.C. Fitzgerald, appears to have been drafted at the request of the pope and summarizes Fitzgerald's thoughts on problem priests after his Vatican visit. Several news organizations, including the AP, reported last year that Fitzgerald was intent on buying an island where priests attracted to men and boys could be segregated, and even made a $5,000 down payment on a Caribbean island for that purpose."

Explain that one, Please.


Luis B Rosario   April 2nd, 2010 2:27 am ET

@Rick
I don't know what prompted your contempt towards me.
I don't know what you are talking about. I have been a Crhistian
for more 60 years. But I have nothing against Atheists as long
as they don't go persecuting us Christians. Everybody who say is
my friend will have my respect unless I find out they do not
deserve my friendship and respect for other reasons than
difference of opinion regarding world matters including
religion. Have a Happy Easter Rick . Like Cajazz said
" getting too deeply involved on this blogs creates
confrontations and turf exploitation. If you are interested
write to me at my E-mail address. Rosalu41@Tampabay Bay.
RR.com. This invitation is extended to anybody who is willing
to use civility, respect and proceed within U.S,A laws,
rules and regulations. Have a great weekend brothers
and sisters. And please, don't to war to start another war but
to achieve peace and justice for all, or else don't go to war.
When you go to war and revenge is your main goal, you will
end hurting more innocent people than the ones that you are
attempting to avenge. " It is like the Domino effect theory," it
is like a revolving door that will come back to hit on your talons
if you don't use caution. Don't fool around with a switchblade
button unless you know how to use it. Run or walk slowly if
you want to reach you destination promptly(faster). During a
criminal investigaion don't try to be the victim, the witness,
the officer in charge, the prosecutor, the judge and the jailer.
It is quite a heavy burden for one person. " The church is not
the one under indictment but is all of us who believe that we are
not part of the problem. The "righterous brothers and sisters
who continue to attack the church only because it has some
" bad apples among the bushel," will someday realize that
they are not beyond perfection but that they may be
on equal terms with a pack of hungry hyenas that don't know
right from wrong." Most of us are novices(rookies) regarding
this subject but we may believe that we are superstars above
God and world justice. God bless you Rick and all the bloggers
who write and read the comments on these blogs.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 2nd, 2010 2:50 am ET

Luis B. Rosario

Happy Easter Luis...your a fine friend and a champion of righteousness on these blogs...enjoy your weekend and keep us informed with your valued opinions...Semper Fi..Luis............caj


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 5:44 am ET

Luis, I must have mixed up names while rushing to answer. Forgive me. Also, no matter what a person is I always offer my friendship. Again I am rushing, but will write ypu again.


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 6:32 am ET

Luis,

I read your input from a pda of mine on which it takes a while to scroll down this long blog. Now I got out of my bed for you to see what it is you wrote that I reacted on.

I assume I reacted on what you wrote on April 1st, 2010 11:35 am ET, misinterpreting your post for an anti-Christian comment.

But Luis, whatever posts or reactions, this is not a war zone. We exchange views on life and while they can differ we are all humans and can be friends despite difference in opinions on specific topics. Just imagine if we have to become enemies with everybody we have a difference in opinion on a topic…. This world will be true hell.

Christ teaches us to love everybody. I do believe that brings joy and happiness.

Luis please don’t feel offended by anything on this blog. I assume we are simply exchanging views and are learning from this all. Forgive me if I did hurt you.


Niko the Farmer   April 2nd, 2010 6:45 am ET

Rick

You (and other ordinary parishioners) are the Catholic Church like Germans were Germany under Hitler. You're there, you participate, you follow, but you are not wagging the dog, the dog is wagging you.

This notion that "we are all the Catholic Church" might make you feel good, but when I say the church is corrupt I am not referring to you, and other parishioners. In my opinion, you are not the church. When I say "the church," I am referring to the car and its driver, not the passengers who simply can't see they're being driven to the wrong place.


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 6:53 am ET

Jack,

Thanks for bringing forward that since then the Vatican has been working on this serious problem.

We all know the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, and also about child abuse during the Roman Empire in the spas. This child sexual abuse situation is not something new. But thank God we are heading toward perfection and trying to clear up this problem. Finally people start to realize that adultery is no good. Let us hope that other fields will be investigated too, especially sports, since it is so much easier for trainers to have physical contact with kids.


Rick   April 2nd, 2010 7:09 am ET

Niko the Farmer,

I understand your way of looking at the Church. But it is a fact that we are not merely passengers. All Catholics are involved in developments inside the Catholic Church. We can always talk to/ write the priests or anybody who has a leading role, up to the Pope, about matters of the Church. We all do have an active role.

Another fact is that we are all corrupt as human beings. We all need some cleansing. That is what is meant by the Bible stating that we are all sinners. But as long as we admit to be imperfect and acknowledge we have to convert (try hard to become better person), we are on the right track.

At this point everybody knows the Catholic Church is constantly working on perfection; we are all working on perfection. That is the main point.


Lauretta   April 2nd, 2010 9:47 am ET

Jack,
Interestingly, I just read an article about Fr. Fitzgerald last night. What I got from the article was that, after many years of trying to treat pedophile priests, he came to the conclusion that it was not possible to rehabilitate them. The island was to isolate them from the rest of the world so that they could not harm anyone else. I would presume a prison, in a sense. They probably wouldn't be locked in cells but they would have no access to anyone other than themselves.


jack   April 3rd, 2010 12:00 am ET

Some Jewish people upset that speaker for Catholic Church compared the pedophile accusations to anitsemetism.

Phones ringing off hook after first day of Catholic abuse hotline in Germany. Over 4,000 calls first day?

Time to quit stalling and admit wrong doing, and quit making excuses, if they want to regain any measure of credibility.

Just because a group is powerful, and has a large following does not make it right. It would be moral for followers to refuse to be hoodwinked any longer, and quit supporting an institution that has such mass corruption. But, I suppose some people need their crutch. Making a break with such a powerful influence may not be easy. Some people are as trapped by their religion as a child is in the arms of a priest/pedophile. But there is hope , if they want to break the addiction.


Lauretta   April 3rd, 2010 12:11 am ET

Just to clarify since I have read a few misunderstandings about this. First, it was not a speaker for the Church. He was a priest that preaches for those in the Vatican. He was quoting from a letter that a Jewish friend of his had sent him. The Jewish friend was sympathizing with the priest over the constant criticism of the Church by other people. So, in effect, it was a Jewish man who made the comment. The priest was just quoting him. I read this in two different news sites.

As far as the hotline in Germany, we will have to see how many calls were to report abuse and how many were for other reasons.


Niko the Farmer   April 3rd, 2010 2:38 am ET

Sorry, I'm a sinner, I'm imperfect, fine. I need to "work toward perfection." Fine. I am corrupt. Fine.

Child molestation and other sundry crimes cross a line, and that includes KNOWING ABOUT those crimes, being in a position to do something about them, and doing nothing. That crosses a line. Sorry, you may want to make me and everyone else a part of that same "imperfect" group. I admit to being imperfect. We all are. The church's crimes, however, cross a line.

Good people do not cross that line. Ever. Good people NEVER cross that line. Someone who molests kids is NEVER a good person. It's not like they're merely fallable. They are evil. They are not like you or I. People who cover up that act aren't like you or me either. they are NEVER good people. It's not that they are imperfect, they are NOT GOOD EVER.

Yes, we are all imperfect. We make mistakes, we argue wrong positions, we don't always treat the people we love the right way, we may not hold a door for someone, maybe we even borrow a friend's car and forget to fill the tank. we're imperfect. But this is way beyond the pale. I wish people would stop making excuses for the church's criminal activities by saying that "oh well, we're all imperfect." That's the biggest crock of $%#& I ever did hear in all my years on this planet.

The church is corrupt. Even if you think you're corrupt, too, you're not corrupt in the same way.


Lauretta   April 3rd, 2010 10:18 am ET

Niko the Farmer,

Let's apply your thinking to all cases of child abuse. Since fifty percent of abuse comes from a family member or significant other of a parent, I guess we can't belong to a family; I believe the next largest group would be public schools so we cannot send children to them; then the Protestant churches–their rate of abuse is higher among clergy than the Catholic church so all Christianity is out; I have read about cases of Jewish rabbis as well, so no Judaism either. I have read about atrocities among the Muslims as well. Our world is getting pretty small now.

I agree that this is never acceptable but it is happening constantly. Very possibly one of your neighbors or family members has committed this horrible act. I know that is the case for me. I have had three cases of what the Catholic Church defines as sexual abuse committed against me as a young teenager by family members and a teacher. I didn't leave or disown my family and sent my daugher to a public school.

I want it to end as much as you do, but in order for that to happen, we need to "expose" all the abuse no matter where it happens. Someone on this site earlier on said that they worked in this field and had a family in which they knew the, I believe, stepfather was abusing but they could do nothing about it. That needs to change. I know of numerous people who have been abused by family members, none by clergy. Many of those who abuse were sexually abused themselves as children. I believe I read that 70 percent of the priests interviewed who had been found guilty of abusing had been abused themselves. That makes no sense to me but I guess there must be some truth to it.

One last thing. According to the Church's definition, sex abuse is kissing someone, touching them through their clothing, etc. Many, many people are guilty of this sort of thing.


Niko the Farmer   April 3rd, 2010 11:34 am ET

Lauretta,

Frist, we are on a forum discussing the Catholic church. If you want to get started on other religions, believe me, I'd have plenty of similar things to say about them as well. But, we're not here discussing those religions. As an aside, I think all religions are cults with varying degrees of corruption. But we're just here discussing the cult that is the Catholic Church.

Second, your reasoning is flawed. People don't "join families" or go to a school in order to become part of a criminal enterprise. Although every criminal belongs to a family, not every family is criminal. What we're talking about is the exact opposite: the "family member" (or parishioner) may not necessarily be criminal, but the "family" (or church) is. Do you see the difference? It's not like a case of one bad apple making the whole basket bad. This is the case of a bad basket (the church), but where the apples in it (the parishioners) may not be bad.

Good people have unwittingly become part of criminal enterprises for years. It doesn't make them bad people. Just misguided or misdirected. But just because these people are generally good (albeit misguided) folks, does not mean that the enterprise they have joined is not criminal.

Good people are Republicans, and good people are Democrats. It doesn't mean that these two PARTIES are not corrupt to the core. They offer their members some notion that they are the party that is best for them. However, in reality, they are disgustingly corrupt political machines. Both of them. The church is the same way. Disgustingly corrupt and political. People convince themselves that "I'm a Democrat and the Democrats are good because they care about all people." Or, "I'm a Republican and the Republicans are good because they are all about personal responsibility." Please, the Democrats AS A PARTY don't give a hoot about anybody but their own power, and the Republicans AS A PARTY, being no different, never take responsibility for any of the messes they create. Still, there are SOME Democrats within the party who DO care about people, and there are SOME Republicans within the party who DO take personal responsibility. The existence of these good people within the party is not enough to save the PARTY. It's still corrupt.

People do the same thing with the Catholic Church. "I'm Catholic and the Catholic Church is good because [insert rationalization here]." It's all hogwash. I wish people would stop believing their self-value comes from being a member of something. Only then will they objectively be able to look at the something of which they're a part and ask whether it's good or not.


Niko the Farmer   April 3rd, 2010 11:39 am ET

Lauretta,

Another thing. You say the church defines "kissing someone" or "touching them through their clothes" as sexual abuse, and that a lot of us are guilty of this.

"Kissing someone?" I'm sure it must depend upon how you kiss someone. If the church believes that the mere kissing of a friend on the cheek is "sexual abuse" then the church is in more trouble than I thought. I'm sure that's not what they mean, though.

As for "touching someone through their clothes," who does this? I don't go up to people and "touch them through their clothes", and I don't think you do either. Unless what you're talking about is a pat on the back or just putting your hand on someone's shoulder to get their attention. Again, if the church defines these things as "sexual abuse," then the church is really a mess. But, again, i don't think this is what they're talking about. I'm sure they're referring to the INAPPROPRIATE touching. And, again, I must ask you, who does this?


Lauretta   April 3rd, 2010 1:06 pm ET

Niko,
I will try to answer your responses in order. Yes, there are those that become teachers in order to have access to children–probably many more than would become a priest for the same reason. The same for boy scouts, day cares and other groups that care for children.

I totally disagree with you about the Church. I have found the Church to be very good but some people in it have done horrible things. I made a very deliberate choice to enter the Church as an adult and have found it to be nothing but good for me. The teachings are very good and if we all lived them, we would have paradise on earth.

The Church made bad decisions concerning priests who sexually abuse children but so did families, schools, scout troops, etc.

In the past if a girl was raped and became pregnant or was seduced and became pregnant, she was sent away in secret to have her baby and was told to never tell anyone. This is what families did regularly. Was the male involved punished in any way? No.

Schools to this day are shuffling child abusers around regularly or at the very least they continue to pay the salaries of abusers–with our tax money.

If everyone here cares about the abuse of children, they will stop the constant vitriol against religions and get on the media to expose the sources of most abuse–families and schools. What do you think would happen to the counts of abuse if every time something inappropriate was done to a child, it was made public knowledge and there was punishment for it?

As far as what constitutes abuse, I think that if a child said that a kiss on the cheek by a priest made them uncomfortable, it would be looked into as abuse. Concerning inappropriate touching, as someone who was once a teenaged girl, it happens all the time by lots of people. At least in my world–maybe yours is much more pure than mine.

Just read this morning about an 11 year old girl in England who is being harassed by pedophiles on Facebook. Haven't heard that any of them are in jail yet. They should be. Let's spend as much time trying to stop those sorts of things as we do talking about how bad the Church is. Then maybe things will change for the better.


Rick   April 4th, 2010 12:28 am ET

Niko,

Maybe this could ring a bell?...

29 But this "intimate and vital bond of man to God" (GS 19 # 1) can be forgotten, overlooked, or even explicitly rejected by man.3 Such attitudes can have different causes: revolt against evil in the world; religious ignorance or indifference; the cares and riches of this world; the scandal of bad example on the part of believers; currents of thought hostile to religion; finally, that attitude of sinful man which makes him hide from God out of fear and flee his call.


Rick   April 4th, 2010 9:22 am ET

Niko,

It would make sense that people who reject religion is always ready to point finger at Christianity in general, more even point finger at the Catholic Church (authentically a strong entity against communism). Again, if child molestation is the point, why not investigate sports???


Niko the Farmer   April 4th, 2010 10:43 am ET

Lauretta -

I mean no disrespect; however, I find your positions entirely flawed. You seem to want to make a comparison between the church and the schools. I have not heard of ONE story of a public school shuffling pedophile teachers around and continuing to pay them.

Perhaps you are confusing ALLEGATIONS of child abuse with PROVEN child abuse. When an allegation is made against a teacher, it is true that a public school system cannot terminate a teacher based upon the mere allegation. Indeed, that would be unfair and I wouldn't even expect the church to terminate a priest based upon a mere allegation.

However, I guarantee you that you will not find in any public school system a PROVEN child molesting teacher (that is, post-conviction) who is continuing to work with children despite the school board's knowledge of his past, or has been "shuffled off" to another location, or is continuing to get paid.

What is more, once it is alleged a teacher acted inappropriately, most public school systems do not regularly and with great tenacity take affirmative steps to thwart an investigation of the allegation, as the church has done. In cases where school administrators have done this to protect a teacher, they have ultimately paid the price of discharge and, in some cases, have been charged with crimes, too. When this approach is taken in the church, I will stop complaining. In any event, I find your comparison between church and school system entirely without merit.

Frankly, I also do not see the merit in your tangential argument that pregnant girls, in years passed, were shuttled out of the community to hide their shame, why the men involved went unpunished. We know this happened, but what significance does it have to the topic at hand? You seem to be making excuses for the present based upon misdeeds of the past.

I doubt that the church defines "abuse" as something that made someone else uncomfortable. You simply cannot govern that way. Even the criminal law does not work that way. If I put my hand on your shoulder to get your attention, and it made you "uncomfortable", the problem is yours. You would be irrational at that point. Nobody is going to convict me because you're irrational. There must be OBJECTIVE standards, not subjective ones.

I find your example of the 11 year-old in England being harrassed by pedophiles on Facebook to be a continued deflection from the problem we are discussing. Did anyone say that because the church is bad that there aren't any other bad things going on? I'm sure that case IS in fact getting some attention and investigation, or you wouldn't have heard about it. The police and prosecutors are indeed investigating all kinds of cases. But the existence of one crime should never deflect from the investigation into another.

Again, I find that you are making excuses for the church's criminal behavior because, as you say, "I made a very deliberate choice to enter the Church as an adult and have found it to be nothing but good for ME."

Isn't that exactly what my point has been? You have found the church "nothing but good for YOU," therefore, you wish not to seek out the greater truth about its corruption. That has been exactly my point throughout all of these posts. Good people get involved in bad organizations, and because the relationship works for them, they cannot see what the organization is really about.


Rick   April 4th, 2010 11:40 am ET

Niko,

It is meant in general, not to you personally. You are not the one who made it a worldwide fuzz. Those who are making it a world wide fuzz should have right away started to question ALL the fields where the potential is MUCH GREATER to facilitate child molestation. But noooo, noooooo, because the problem is Catholicism!

As I have posted before, check out "Bella Dodd" and THINK.

Niko, this child molestation among the Catholics is a serious problem, but the way WE are being attacked does not make sense. Where did we state that we are a group of Jesus Christ to be attacked as if we are supposed to be perfect? Start asking kids in the sports field if they have experienced or seen anything similar.

The Catholic Church has been working on solving this problem for years. But it is not effective if ONLY the Catholic Church does something to clear this evil. Ironic it is that just when this pope has worked on making the rules stricter to avoid child molestaton, that he suddenly gets bombarded by media. Why?


Lauretta   April 4th, 2010 4:26 pm ET

Now with all of these facts, one has to ask a few questions. If the sexual abuse in schools is 100 times more frequent than in the Catholic Church, are there 100 times as many articles in the media about the abuse in schools?

If not, then one needs to question why. Two reasons come to mind to me: either there is a deliberate plan to attack and tear down and discredit the Catholic Church or the teachers' union is so powerful that no one dare approach this subject.

In addition, an article that I recently read said that school abuse is approximately 5 percent of the abuse and priest abuse is 1 percent. Where are the other 94 percent of abuse cases reported on in the media? Approximately 50 percent of abuse occurs from family members and friends. Are there 50 times as many articles about this in the media than about the priest abuse? Why not? These individuals certainly are not as powerful as the teachers' unions that they can keep this out of the media. Why is it not being reported at the same rate–on the front page–as is the abuse in the Church?

If we care about the children, we should be screaming loudly for this to be corrected as well as lobbying for changes in the laws so that these people are removed from society so that they cannot continue to harm others.


Niko the Farmer   April 4th, 2010 7:44 pm ET

Rick -

I don't join groups. I'm not a "joiner." So, I couldn't tell you which organization I would join, if I were inclined to join a group.

You speak of things like "sports" where you say there is a "potential" for child abuse. There is potential for child abuse everywhere. On this we might agree.

But the story of the Catholic church has gone beyond "potential." It is "actual."

I disagree and disbelieve that the Catholic church has been working to solve this child molestation problem for years, as you claim. I think the church has been working on its image for years, and sometimes that means that it does appear to deal with this problem; but most times it means that it pushes it "under the rug" (so to speak) in order to save its image.

It's a corrupt organization. On this, I imagine you and I will always disagree.

As an aside, I don't believe that "rules" do anything to solve this problem. We have laws against all kinds of things. Having laws and rules doesn't stop them. I would not blame the church for a rogue priest that it can do nothing about. I blame the church for being rogue itself.


Niko the Farmer   April 4th, 2010 7:52 pm ET

Lauretta -

Thanks for sharing this information. Perhaps the teachers union and other education-related entities are as corrupt as the Catholic church. Maybe we should indeed investigate to find whether there is widespread cover-up, and put an end to it.

Still, assuming such widespread abuse exists in the educational system, its existence should not excuse the Church's crimes.


Lauretta   April 4th, 2010 8:05 pm ET

Niko,
I agree with everything you said. I am not saying these things to excuse the Church in any way. I say these things because while everyone is focused on the Church's failings,hundreds of thousands of children are being abused. I want the abuse to stop! That is what I care about.

As far as the Church doing something, one thing that they are doing is screening candidates for the priesthood very carefully to make sure they have a healthy sexuality. This is ongoing all the while they are at seminaries.

Another thing that I believe is very healthy is to no longer take young boys away from their homes and put them in seminaries. This has been determined to be an unhealthy thing and has pretty much ceased–at least in the U.S.


Niko the Farmer   April 4th, 2010 11:38 pm ET

Lauretta -

When you say "one thing that [the church] is doing is screening candidates for the priesthood very carefully to make sure they have a healthy sexuality," you mean that the church is trying to weed out homosexuals.

This is exactly what I term "scapegoating." The problem is not homosexuals, but pedophiles. There is simply no relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. The church's efforts to scapegoat are reprehensible. But, this is the kind of thing the church has done for centuries.

I don't believe there is a fool-proof way to screen out pedophiles. They will go into positions of trust to gain trust so that they can have access to their victims. My problem with the church is that it is fraudulent. It exists for the very purpose to perpetrate a fraud. This is what sets it apart from all those other organizations (like schools, scouting, etc.) where you will no doubt find people who prey on children. Those places do not exist for the express purpose of carrying out a fraud, while the church does. On this, I suspect we will never agree.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 12:45 am ET

Niko,

I conclude that you do not reason, but simply, too clearly, are against the Catholic Church herself. You have not given the impression to be caring the most about the child molestation itself, since you nowhere in your replies have supported the idea to investigate other institutions for child molestation. Instead you keep emphasizing your impression that the Catholic Church is corrupt, based on which you would like to see the Church destroyed; you have not given any suggestion for the church to improve the situation. All that can be drawn from your writings is hatred against the Church reflected in your opinion and impression about her; you gave no credit for what she has done for civilization.

Also Niko, do you know the song “No man is an Island”? Well, you must be part of some circle; family, friends, work, social something, church, charity, etc. That is what is meant in my previous post. So, mention which one of these you would "join", thinking there will be no child molestation...TIK tok TIK tok TIK tok.... waiting....


Rick   April 5th, 2010 12:48 am ET

Niko,

when you answer my previous question, remember you statement to Lauretta: "I don't believe there is a fool-proof way to screen out pedophiles".....


Lauretta   April 5th, 2010 10:27 am ET

Niko,
Yes, homosexuality is one of the sexual disorders that future priests are screened for but they are also screened for the capacity for celibacy and mastery of self in all things sexual. Just as a person getting married wants to look for a person who has the capacity for monogamy, so those training men for the priesthood need to look for those who have the capacity for celibacy. And, contrary to common thinking, these are not men who have no sexual nature, but those who have a healthy, balanced sexuality. Those with a repressed sexuality are not good candidates for the priesthood either.

I'm probably going to make many angry here but, oh, well. If, upon looking at the statistics of abuse, over 80% of victims are male and the majority of them are teenagers, while at the same time the majority of perpetrators admit to being homosexual, would you not tend to come to the conclusion that homosexual tendencies have something to do with the problem that you are trying to solve? Also, the abuse generally began when the perpetrators were in their early thirties. If they were not priests and these 30 year old men were having sex with teenaged boys, would you call them pedophiles or homosexuals looking for a relationship?

We had a teenaged relative who was being pursued by a 30 year old woman and we did not look at the situation as one of pedophilia but of homosexuality.

But, according to some, the Church can do nothing right so it will not matter what she does in this or any other situation.


Cajjazz76:24:8   April 5th, 2010 2:02 pm ET

@Lauretta

As you have noticed I was respectful of those who celebrated the Christian calender weekend by not posting on this site.

However, you come back in with another false claim in defense of a situation that is hitting the news commentaries throughout the world, and I still feel you are devoid of the enormity of what the world outside the cathredral walls see...child and sexual abuse of minors and a cover-up and complicity at the highest level of the Vatican.

You first sentence claiming that applicant's to seminaries are screened for being homosexuals is laughable and false. How ridiculous when Vatican rules do not even address it. They address celebacy only, not homosexual acts. Please do your homework, because I have certainly done mine, and am far ahead of your false claims.


Cajjazz76:24:8   April 5th, 2010 2:29 pm ET

@Lauretta

Maybe it would help if you realized this is not against those who worship, but an open referendum on a long revealed cover-up

. Wouldn't you think the leader at the Vatican would openly and publicly address the accusations made against him that he is the principle factor because he is in denial...thus he hands carte blanche approval to the world for child abuse?...Any claim you make and finger pointing elsewhere, is only a hand raised in his favor..to hell with him.

You have no idea of what his true beliefs are...he is a christian politician and a fraud and a coward..a former Nazi uniformed collabrator for whom I have a one finger salute for...

The church, as a group of worshipers, are not the accused, they are victims of deceit.. The uproar will not subside until he gets off his papal posterior and condemns and apologizes to his faithful followers and the world for centuries of ridiculous leverage used on the lower echelons in the church heirarchy and corrects it....

He is no more than a deceitful former president who was removed from office, despite his awkward resignation, in shame..who died in shame,,,his legacy is shame.

You can announce to the world all the cracks and crevices where abusers hide, but you cannot deny that 1.6, or so, billions are being led by a co-conspirator of abuse.


Cajjazz76:24:8   April 5th, 2010 2:38 pm ET

Guess I am a half billion off of the Catholic count...I updated and will correct as follows...estimated 1.13 billion..still nothing else changes.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 5:03 pm ET

Cajjazz76:24:8, what about screening all men before allowing them to get married, and same for women??? Do you get the point?


Cajazz76:24:8   April 5th, 2010 5:48 pm ET

Rick

Your point would be better served addressed to someone else. I have no concern in regards to a screening process for seminary students. You, like Lauretta, miss the entire point of this discussion. I guess if we dressed the Pope as Richard M. Nixon it would become much clearer...A cover-up is, by definition, obscurity and denial of the facts and the truth. I remember Nixon had many who believed him, until he finally revealed the truth in hidden fragments. But there were the tapes, which to this day are still telling more and more of the truth.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 6:52 pm ET

Nick,

both Lauretta and I do understand that you are not getting the point. We know it is not easy for people to see or understand the foundation of matters like this.


Niko the Farmer   April 5th, 2010 7:53 pm ET

Rick

I gotta admit you're "tik tok tik tok tik tok" is a bit like nails on a chalkboard.

You say I hate the church. You mean it took you this long to figure that out? I hate all corrupt, criminal enterprises. I admit that the church is not the only one. You seem to suggest that because I am not critical of others, that I am just here to rally against the church.

Well, all I can say to that is that this very blog was initiated to be about, and is exclusively about, the catholic church. In fact, if you scroll up to the top of this page, you will see that the question posed to bloggers here was:

What do YOU think about the Pope’s handling of the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandals?

If we were on a blog discussing child sexual abuse in general, without having been asked this question, then I would have offered a much more generalized opinion. You say I am limiting my criticism to the church. Well that's a stellar observation on your part. The QUESTION PRESENTED is limited to the church.

So, Rick, it seems to me that your effort to depict me as only seeking to destroy the church because I am only being critical of the church is, as I've maintained all along, a continuation of efforts to divert attention away from the church's crimes.

You ask why I do not offer a solution to the church. There is none. That is because, as I have said over and over and over again, the church is a criminal enterprise corrupt at its core. It exists, and has existed for nearly 2000 years, for the sole purpose of perpetrating a fraud. Why would I offer a solution other than disbanding this criminal enterprise? Would you offer a solution to help the mafia or the Bloods or the Cryps or the Latin Kings to continue to thrive? I mean, how ridiculous to expect that I would offer a solution to help the church clear up its image so that it can engage in the continuation of its fraudulent purposes.

You have concluded that I am "against the catholic church." Well, in plain English, man, I must say, "gee, no kidding." Have I in any way pretended not to be? I have called it corrupt and a criminal enterprise from my very first posting here. OF COURSE I'm against the catholic church. My God man, do you say those things about an entity that you're NOT against? I haven't pulled punches at all. Why in the world you think that you have uncovered some great secret of the universe is beyond me. So, let me be clear:

As I have previously stated over and over and over again. The church is a criminal enterprise. It is corrupt at its core. It exists to perpetrate a fraud. It's crimes go beyond child molestation and the related cover-up. At times it does throw out a charitable bone, as a public relations strategy. I am indeed against this kind of chicanery. I am indeed against the church's criminality. I admit that the church is not the only criminal enterprise or the only institution where child molestation seems to thrive. I have not critiqued others on this blog because this is a blog specifically about the catholic church. Ergo, my failure to be critical ON THIS BLOG of other criminals does not mean that I give them a pass at the expense of the catholic church.

In an ideal world, I would like to see the church disbanded, as I wish to see all bad things disbanded. My only concern about that would be what might happen to the billions of people who would find themselves consciously lost without the church's compass, such as it is. At present, they are lost, but they don't know it, because they believe they have a guide in the church. My fear is that, without the church, they would have to face the reality of being lost, and that would result in total mayhem.

Finally, again I must tell you that I am not a joiner. I do not join clubs. I disagree with your proposition that "no man is an island." The "island" metaphor aside, there are many of us who are quite content as individuals.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 8:14 pm ET

Nick,
If you react like that against EVERY SINGLE ENTITY that has corruption in it, man.....where do you want to live? That is my point.

CONVERSION means make better. EACH NAD EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US ARE CURRUPT and do need improvement.

Taking it to the extreme you might say then: "well may the whole planet Earth EXPLODE in zillions of pieces because it is corrupt!" ...???

Nick, I hope you are not also one of the many brainwashed in "societies" against the RCC, cursing the pope, etc.

Nick, a word of a friend; the same spirit you let be in charge of your life for one thing, will be in charge of your life for all other things. Make sure to wake up in time before that spirit ruins your life by making all your loved one turn their back on you...because without you knowing it you will be transmitting it to the ones who surround you, with all its consequences...

We understand this blog was to shoot at our pope. But we wanted to make you see that the problem is NOT our pope, the problem is NOT us the Catholic Church, but the problem is US ALL (including you) human beings....A bit clearer now?


Niko the Farmer   April 5th, 2010 8:18 pm ET

Lauretta,

I don't even know where to start with your assertions. I find them entirely without basis, and completely disagree that "80% of molestation victims are male." That is utter hogwash. You should visit a rape crisis center some time.

Homosexuals are not pedophiles and pedophiles are not homosexuals. A pedophile has victims, a homosexual does not. A pedophile's crimes are crimes of opportunity. The reason that male children are often their victims in settings like the church or the Boy Scouts is that these are male institutions. The opportunity for a pedophile to victimize a female child simply isn't present in these settings. But, make no mistake about it, a pedophile victimizes children; the gender of his victim I don't think matters to him.

The notion that homosexuals are the problem is a notion created by the church itself. It's a means of scapegoating people and misplacing the blame. It's one of the many things a criminal does.


Niko the Farmer   April 5th, 2010 8:21 pm ET

Rick:

The basic premise on which you respond is flawed. I never said i want to eradicate all institutions IN WHICH CORRUPTION EXISTS. I'd like to eradicate institutions that are themselves corrupt.

We can agree that corruption exists in every entity. But, not every entity is corrupt at the core. That is the difference. I don't think you're understanding the distinction.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 8:23 pm ET

Niko, it is not because we are corrupt, that it would mean forever corrupt. As long as we are alive, we have time to change to become better human beings. We only have to be willing to change, and try hard to change.

Same is valid for our pope and the whole Catholic Church. The same is valid for you also.

We cannot find sincere friendship or true love without taking into account the previous mentioned Niko. We are all alike, none of us are perfect. We make mistake and get the chance to avoid them and become better people. We ALL get the chance as long as we are alive.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 8:31 pm ET

Niko:
"I never said i want to eradicate all institutions IN WHICH CORRUPTION EXISTS. I'd like to eradicate institutions that are themselves corrupt." ???????????? COME ON!

Institution cannot talk, or see, or hear, or wite, or walk, nothing it can do! It is the people who are together the institution that is called the "institution". That being the case, if those people are corrupt, so is the institution...Niko.


Rick   April 5th, 2010 10:39 pm ET

Niko,

If you would give the Catholic Church, us the Catholic Church, a chance to better ourselves, so would you too get a chance to better yourself. Else neither the Church, us, or you would get a chance to make things better for us all......or...you would get a chance to better yourself and not us the Catholic Church?


Lauretta   April 6th, 2010 1:00 am ET

Cajjazz,

This is part of a document from the Vatican website concerning the screening of candidates for priesthood. I believe it validates my claim that the Church does indeed take one's sexual orientation into account when screening:

2. Homosexuality and the Ordained Ministry

From the time of the Second Vatican Council until today, various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have confirmed the teaching of the Church on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

Regarding acts, it teaches that Sacred Scripture presents them as grave sins. The Tradition has constantly considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. Consequently, under no circumstance can they be approved.

Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter[8].

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture"[10].

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem – for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.


Lauretta   April 6th, 2010 1:12 am ET

Niko,

I am sorry that I did not express myself well. The 80 percent of abuse that is of males refers to that of Catholic priests, not society as a whole. The John Jay study, an independent group, that was requested by the Church makes this assertion, not me.

I totally disagree with your assertion that male teens were the only available victims that priests had access to. I have been a Catholic long enough to know that teenaged girls were at times alone with priests and could have been victims as well. They often in the past would wash and iron the priests' clothes, bring them food and do other tasks that were asked of them which at times could put them alone with a priest. Also, we have had girls altar servers since the 1970's in some areas of the U.S. and I don't believe that you will see an increase in the number of girls being molested after that time.

I don't remember if it was part of the John Jay study or another study, but well over 50 percent of the priests who had abused that were interviewed described themselves as being homosexual. If that fact is combined with the fact that 80 percent of their victims were male, it would certainly seem to indicate that their sexual orientation had something to do with their choice of victims.


Lauretta   April 6th, 2010 1:20 am ET

I find it interesting that some who are so incensed about the Catholic Church concerning the sexual abuse of minors do not take it into account that it is the founder of this same church, Jesus Christ, who told the culture that causing harm to children was not acceptable.

Before Christianity, it was common to allow small children to die of exposure if the parents were dissatisfied with them, they were offered as sacrifices to various pagan gods, they were routinely sexually abused in some cultures, they were sold when very young as spouses to whomever, etc. etc.

The reason that these things seem so abhorrent today is because Christianity influenced the culture and made it aware of the dignity of children. Yes, there are those in the Church who do not live this, but that is not because of the Church but because they are weak human beings who should repent and have sorrow for failing to live as their faith teaches.


Niko the Farmer   April 6th, 2010 6:11 am ET

Lauretta -

Jesus Christ did not found the Catholic Church. That is perhaps the biggest fraud perpetrated by the church for nearly two millenia.

Also, I didn't say that ALL priests victims were male. You made that assertion, to support your claim that there is a link between pedophilia and homosexual. I simply said that it is not surprising that most of the victims are male, because the church is largely a male-oriented organization. To the extent they let women in at all, it's always in some subordinate role and the presence of women in the church is not very great.

But, you are correct. Priests have had the opportunity to abuse, and in fact have abused females. Just this morning the headline reads:

(CNN) - Vatican officials failed to take action against a priest accused of sexually abusing two teenage girls in Minnesota despite repeated warnings from a local bishop starting in 2005, attorneys for one of the alleged victims said Monday.

Of course, this is just an allegation, and we'll have to see if it sticks. But, the point is, the opportunity *is* sometimes there for pedophiles in the church to abuse females.

However, your proposition that there is some tie-in to homosexuality is purely bogus. There simply is no connection between a homosexual orientation, which is sexually based, and a disposition toward pedophilia, which is a disposition based upon control and violence.

You have bought hook, line and sinker into the church's propoganda.


Niko the Farmer   April 6th, 2010 6:16 am ET

I must comment further on this bogus notion that Jesus Christ started the catholic church.

Anyone who believes that the most humble, least proud, non-materialistic and most charitable being to ever walk this earth started an organization the very purpose of which is to amass wealth, control, riches, gold, real estate and other treasures, all while pretending to be charitable, is entirely off his nut.

In addition, having read my previous post, please allow that it is about 6AM and my grammar cells have not yet arisen.


Rick   April 6th, 2010 9:38 am ET

Niko,

2 + 2 = 4 ?

Well, if the Church brings forward the teaching of Jesus Christ; Who is the founder???


Rick   April 6th, 2010 9:41 am ET

Niko,

money money money money money, etc. Is that all you can see about the Catholic Church?

If it would not have been for the help of the Catholic Church, God knows if untill today we would still have black and white slaves.....


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 1:13 pm ET

Lauretta

Let's get to a basic statement you made..Jesus Christ started the Catholic Church..I have to ask two simple questions..

When was the bible written?

Why doesn't it even mention these words...Catholic Church?

Surely if Jesus Christ founded the 'Catholic Church" it would be in the bible...faith and fact are a dichotomy....of sordid truths...and mistruths.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 1:18 pm ET

Lauretta

You haven't read all my blogs..beyond puberty pedophilia becomes hebephilia... pubescent children...children just the same...


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 1:34 pm ET

Lauretta

Faith dichotomy...refers to the religion encapsulation of faith...not the issue regarding trust... faith is not bastardized until it becomes politicized..of which religion is, when used as an interchange with belief...


Rick   April 6th, 2010 2:41 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8

You asked Lauretta: "When was the bible written?" ; Well Cajazz76:24:8,
what exactly does that have to do with the Catholic Church started by Jesus Christ?

You also asked Lauretta; "Why doesn't it even mention these words...Catholic Church? " Well Cajazz76:24:8, the Bible does not state "Cajazz76:24:8" either, neither Loyola University, or Harvard University, etc.. The Catholic Church is a school of Christianity that is teaching according to the word of God. If the teachers fail, what can we do...? Us the Catholic Church have to continue with the work.


Rick   April 6th, 2010 2:49 pm ET

Cajazz76:24:8

You stated: "Faith dichotomy...refers to the religion encapsulation of faith...not the issue regarding trust... faith is not bastardized until it becomes politicized..of which religion is, when used as an interchange with belief..." Well Cajazz76:24:8, mouthful for words to simply state that you do not understand what religion really is. You were born with it buddy. No matter what you do it cannot be taken away from you.


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:33 pm ET

JANE FONDA IN NORTH VIETNAM


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:35 pm ET

mcmargie

Just those words demoralized many...giving aid and comfort to the enemy was a crime.....................


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:40 pm ET

Rick

Religion by definition is learned behavior...based on belief...


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:42 pm ET

Rick

Belief is a psychological state...


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:50 pm ET

Rick

Religion as defined...A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny...key word ...control...


Cajazz76:24:8   April 6th, 2010 3:52 pm ET

Rick

Destiny refers to a predetermined course of events.


Niko the Farmer   April 6th, 2010 7:41 pm ET

Rick,

When "the church brings forward the teachings of Jesus Christ," it'll be a cold day in Equador.

You have an inflated opinion of the church. Hugely inflated.


Rick   April 6th, 2010 8:00 pm ET

Cajjazz76:24:8, who did you get the dictionary from?


Rick   April 7th, 2010 2:42 pm ET

Niko,

You stated:

"You have an inflated opinion of the church. Hugely inflated." Well Niko, I call that great respect and admiration.

What you guys could do is maybe get the info of the priests accused of sinning (crime), and go visit them, talk to them and find out what happened and tell them personally what you think should be done to them.


Rick   April 7th, 2010 7:25 pm ET

Niko,

do you sort of understand now when stated that "pointing finger at the Catholic Church" is "pointing finger at all of us being Catholic"?


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