NOTE: We'll be talking to wives and a husband whose spouses are behind bars – TONIGHT on LKL – 9pmeastern/6pmpacific!!
Some of our guests are on the new show, "Prison Wives," which profiles those who have fallen in love, and remain devoted to each other, despite the fact that one spouse is in prison. "These unconventional families give viewers a look both inside prison life and at what keeps these relationships together, for better or worse, for richer or poorer."
Check out more on "Prison Wives" HERE
And let us know what you want to hear tonight!
Filed under: Larry King Live
*** BAN ALL MARRIAGES BEHIND BARS ... ***
There really are reasons why the Church insist on proper Banns of Marriage.
Doing your time for your crime is exactly that.
Will any Member of the Church waiver these words?
Church is the only place to marry.
I watch your show every night. Please, stop calling these dolfins "killer whales." All animals are killers if they are to survive!! Make a point in your show and bring experts to discuss and educate people about these magnificent animals. Sensationalism should not be part of good reporting. Thanks.
I am the father of 2 children ages 8 and 5 who's mother while working at a corrections facility in West Virginia as a LPN became involved and is now engaged to a convicted felon he was convicted of Second Degree Murder along with 3 other felony charges in 1995 and has been incarcerated in the West Virginia prison system since that time, This ordeal began in 2008 when she became involved in a sexual relationship will employed at this facility. I have been through a very horrible experience since the beginning of this whole ordeal I can not understand for one why a woman who had a nursing degree would jeopardize her job to be involved in a sexual relationship with this man who is in prison for murder, Why knowing this man was incarcerated for the last 15 years would want to put our children in danger of possible emotional or physical abuse or worse, When I have asked her these questions she has said he is a changed man. Not only has she put herself in the life of this man she has even been allowing my 2 children to speak to this murderer on the phone.. The state that these felons are incarcerated in should make some provisions to protect the young children who's parent become involved in these situations with these violent criminals by granting custody to the non custodial parent and not make it so difficult to gain custody in these situations ... Donnie G.
Donald L Allen yes US and you or next to go to kill what you think about that or you to good to go in your own Jill well I no the Jill don,t belong to you it belong to the country and if the people can not get you start I reckon you well get to see the in side of the Jill house well I no you just love me see you PS have a good day the good news is talk to my hand Donald Allen
well you no what I meant I meant Jul you no were bad people like you go I reckon we well see you be good talk to my hand
the dali lama is the most inspirational person ever, the pope would never be on your show. we love him, he is the truth
I hope everything works out for you; obviously you are dealing with a tough situation.
I am married to a man convicted of murder. He has been behind bars for 18 years for a crime he did not commit. 18 years ago, he was with me the night they claimed that he commited the crime. I testified as his alibi witness at his trial but the prosecuter produced an eye witness, which we later found out that the prosecuter knew the eye witness lied. But my husband is still incarcerated 18 years later. Our criminal justice system create victims of the system. We need reform in more ways than one. United States is beginning to be a loss cause.
Its a Stupid disorder .
O my God I didnt do it what a pick up line .
I married a man that was convicted of murder 18 years ago. He was with me the night they said he commited this crime. I testified in court as his alibi witness, however the prosecuter produced an eyewitness that we found out later that they knew their eyewitness was lying (falsified testimony) and his defense attorney was suspended from practicing 30 days after the trial of substance abuse. However, my husband is still serving a life sentence 18 years later. Our criminal justice system is creating victims of the system. We need reform for more than one item. The United States is beginning to be a lost cause.
I know this situation involving my children and their mother being involved with this inmate has been a complete nightmare and I hope that no father has to go through what I have.
Life without a spouse is what you idiots have convicted yourselves to does living aloan make you feel married .
@Michael, try it, you may like it. I dont feel alone...I feel secure, happy and loved.
There are people who would never be on my level with a spouse laying right beside them everynight "still lonely" or the person who can never find the right mate and is "still lonely".
Donnie I cant say that I feel your hurt but I do the mother is a worthless person find your kids a new mother thats what I did shes no better then her convict boyfriend .
I cant imagine anyone wanting to be married to a criminal doing life. but if some people do, and the prisons allow private intimate moments with there spouse, maybe there would be less tension and crime in the prisons.
Sonya I dont have to pretend my pillow is going to get parole .
i can relate to being a prison wife. My husban is lock up on drugs charges been gone for 10 years now! Ive been with him since day one. But we wre together before he went in. I was only 21 im now 30. he was diagnose with hodgkin lyphomia cancer and is taking kemo in butner north carolina at the medical center its been a rough ride but we almost at the end of it now.
my husband is in prison been gon for 10 years now! he didnt murder anyone he in for drugs. Ive been with him through it all. Im 30 years old i was 21 when he left. He's currently in butner nc at the fed med center. he was diganose wit hodgkin lyphomai cancer. he's currently taking kemo. Its been rough but i can relate to this story! We wre together before he went in, we did get married in prison though. We have been together for 14years now married for 7years.
In my situation my children's mother was employed at the facility this inmate was housed out and after she was forced to leave her job the WVDOC will not allow her visits but they allow phone calls,and letters and they allow her into the facility for his parole hearings which have been denied so far but I will go through this same torment again in Feb 2011 when he comes back up. I feel like the West Virginia Dept of Corrections should have handled this situation with more concern for my small children. I mean this man is a murderer and as I stated had been incarcerated for 14 years when he showed no restraint and became involved with her. That is not a man we need on our streets walking free I know that.
I guess the silver lining with marrying someone with a life prison sentence would be... every meeting would be like a 'honeymoon'... what extremes people will go ...... in order to stay in the 'horneymoon' phase!!!
I think baptism and doors,i think the bar of public opinion,blue is mean.
I guess you cant help who you love but I cannot understand why Tim McDonald would want to waste the rest of his life after working so hard all of his life. And for this woman, who committed a horrible crime and will spend the rest of her life in prison, as she should. He seems like a wonderful man and it is such a shame.
I think the person in prison writes beautiful letters & poetry & the spouse on the outside feels very special. I think the person on the outside is living a fantasy. Why wouldn't you get along? In a normal relationship you have to work ,live together.,get used to the other's bad habits. There could be money problems which could present problems. THe abnormal relationship –you're anticipating the visitations, the one in prison is telling you how wonderful,important you are,whispering sweet nothings. Looking @ life thro' rose coloured glasses. I wonder how long these relationships would last if they actually lived together!
I think LES MOTS ET LES CHOSES by MICHEL FOUCAULT,doors say insane and bar.I think Santa.
I think snake and strange doors say west is best and drive.I think distance.
I think marine and soldier,i play yacht,prison is not sports.
One more time I will take,back door man come ,I thnk sad,Prison and sack is same thing.
Donnie – I feel for you it's always hard when a spouse falls in-love with someone else and leaves. But people don't choose who they fall in-love with as you well know. After all you fell for her yourself. Grow up and forgive yourself! It's not the Department of Corrections job to keep your marriage intact! That was your job! Did you take time to connect with her and i don't mean sex. Love wants someone who connects with our hearts, minds and souls.
Michael Armstrong Sr – The people who fall in-love with status or money or anything that's not love for the person will end up like Donnie. Alone when love comes they'll leave to follow it. No one chooses who they love, love happens to us. Don't be jealous that someone else found love. Or rather that someone else is loved and accepted for who they are – imperfect maybe, as we all are! Some people do change for the better. So there's still hope for your angry and bitter heart.
Logical Dave – Then go down to the court house and tell them to stop marrying people, because it's not a church either. Or is it only inmates you want married in church? By the way alot of institutions do have churches.
Dodie- I wouldn't call loving someone in prison a honeymoon. And if they don't bond deeper than lust they wont last very long. To stay requires intimacy far deeper than anything else. It's a love of the heart and soul or it wont last, because that's all you have. It's harder than anything you can imagine. I wouldn't recommend anyone getting married to anyone that they don't love, because for better or worse can become worse. But i do know when you love someone and can throw them away because its worse – it isn't really a love based on thier vows.
Just some food for thought – If the Judicial systems never make mistakes – Why was Christ in Jail? Because some people thought he was a criminal and hated him too!
If you own a buisiness making pencils the only way you can make more money is to produce more pencils. The Judicial System makes Billions and the only way they can make more is to incarcerate more people. Yes we pay Billions in Federal Tax Dollars to States for incarceration. And those states brag how they can feed our inmates for a dollar a day! That money isn't going into prisons or staff wages. It's going into thieves pockets, Your Money and Mine!
Be careful that the system doesn't decide they have a bed for you. Don't break the law? Not to worry states are sued all the time because some procecutor withheld evidence or manufactured evidence to fill a bed!!! Be careful the system is greedy! There's alot of innocent people in prison and next it could be "You"!
For Those Who are In-Love with an inmate – Keep your faith and don't let these people or anyone else stop you from doing what's right. Trust your heart because it always knows if this relationship and love is the right thing for you! God Bless You for having the Courage to Love Someone for the person they are rather than thier circumstances or for what they do for you!
my qestion, why tak prison love?
You sound like a psychologist! Are you one of those people???
I think it would be a 'honeymoon' every time they saw one another. Must there be sex in order to have love? Is not love mostly in your mind? Can you be in love from a distance? Can you be in love without touch? Would living together year after year remove all the excitement...and people stay together because of comfort not love?
Theresa – In 1997 i wondered the same thing, so i did a study on the divorce rates of inmates. This is what i found out. And it surprised me!
In the first year and second year of incarceration the rate was really high. Most inmates who are married when first charged will divorce. That's understandable as most people forget thier vows and run when it's now the worse part. And it's worse.
If you want to know how it stacks up for marriages that take place while someone is incarcerated it goes like this.
If the inmate is in thier twenties the rate was still really high.
If the inmate was in thier thirties the rate was alot better. It also took into account what number of marriage this was for the inmate. And the rate of divorce for someone in thier thirties who was getting married for the first time was only like two percent.
After age 40 it didn't matter what marriage this was the rate was two percent.
I couldn't believe it, after all the rate of divorce was over 50% for free marriages at that time. And i got the figures off of the U>S> Governments reporting web site.
I was so surprised i looked back through thier history and found that the only other rates that even came close was during world war two. When soldiers married pen pals they didn't know exept through letters and thier rate of divorce was also 2%!
I guess there's something to be said for getting to know the person from the inside. And by the way, soldiers kill too.
I know i have an honorable discharge from the USAF! Trained to kill on command. Maybe for a reason, but then sometimes so do inmates.
I actually think there should be no sex allowed for people convicted of brutal murders. With sex, housing, intoxicants, shelter, and three squares a day there may be many homeless that would trade places with them. I think people that have committed violent crimes should do productive work related to the environment, and organic farming. I feel, however, many prisoners should be set free altogether,if they were put in there for victemless crimes to make the corporate prisons even wealthier. This country has the highest prison population in the world, and many of them are in there for no vital reason.
I'm married to an inmate from California that is also incarcerated at California institution for women in. Chino, ca. We have a son together and him and I visit her every weekend. I couldn't imagine him not being able to see his mother. I got alot of support and encouragement from Mr. Whitehouse in dealing with the everyday loneliness and sadness.
Years ago from 1900 – 1940s Castration also known as forced sterilization occurred in many countries around the world including the US with attempts to force people in surgical sterilization. Inmates were sterilized so they could not reproduce. This was part of eugenics programs intended to prevent the reproduction and multiplication of members within a population considered to be carriers of defective genetic traits and unacceptable DNA..
Maybe they should stick to only women staff looking after women prisons and only men staff looking after men prisons.
Also I think they should ban prison marriages and other conjugal rights. They're in there for punishment.
Dodie I've been told i should be one before, but i like writting. So i'm an author who is married to an inmate that is doing life without the possibility of parole for armed robbery and a drug addiction.
He was an air traffic controller and a soldier. Like so many vets they turn to drugs and alcohol to cope. We were married religiously prior to his charges. We've been together for 17 yrs and he's been locked up for almost 12.
He's a law clerk now and spends so much time on his and other inmates cases that he hardly writes me. We talk everyday on the phone. And i get 1-2 letters a month and cards for every special occassion.
Yes i think love is in the mind, heart and spiritually. We live on opposite sides of the country so visits are truelly rare. We both believe in god and love each other, so we make it a point to stay connected and involved in each others lives. We don't happen to be dealing with a state that has conjical visits. Intimacy is bonding and sex is more than intercourse. I agree people do stay together because of comfort too. But wouldn't you say real love is comfort?
I'm about to make the move back so i can visit regularly. When i think about that visit coming up it doesn't feel like a honeymoon. It feels like going home and comforting. :)
@Dodie.. Yes , I feel castration was a barbaric practice. In fact, there is no denying that the people in prison are going to have a regular sex drive. All the more reason to deprive people that have been convicted of first degree murder, and other violent crimes of fulfilling their desires. I believe in treating prisoners humanely,but these sex visits for people who have committed violent crimes, seem like catering to them. I don't want my tax money paid to provide free love nests for violent type criminals.
He must be in Fort Leavenworth prison, Kansas if he was USAF. He must have been a Sergent or an officer. The military has little to no tolerance with drugs. The USAF allows for enlisted men to have two chances but only with Cannabis. Anything else is automatic discharge or prison. I am very sorry to hear of your plight! It must be difficult for you.
The only time I would imagine the rate of divorce would increase is when the couple reconstitutes and the stress of coping with the others living differences and idiosyncrasies can be a challenge.
Great blog -very informational and compassionate . Not all
prisoners are bad. Even some that were really bad have
changed in prison and become good people. They don't
deserve to be treated like animals because this attitude will
harden the inmate and when he/she is released they are
no longer able to assimilate to society and their lifes
become a revolving door -in and out of prison. Some
prisoners suffer mental and physical deterioration while
in jail, especially those who are unable to have family and
friends visitation because they are sent to prisons 400 miles
away from their community.
On the other hand some prisoners are recividists who never
behave and dsrespect authority. These deserve to be disciploned.
You make an excellent point. I completely concur.
Yes, castration always sends waves of shivers down men's spines. I can see your shackles rising and grabbing for protection! lol Sorry, Jack, I just could not resist!
I work at a mens prison in the visiting department. What I see alot of are very needy women that will do anything for their inmate boyfriends or sons. Visitors are the main source for bringing in contraband. What those women don't know is that many of the inmates have more than one girlfriend. The inmates are so manipulating. The only reason some inmates have many girlfriends is for money and their packages. The children is who I feel sorry for because they don't get to have a normal life. Their weekends are spent at the prisons visiting convicted murderers, rapist, drug addicts and molesters. So many times I have seen the children outside the family visiting apartment by themselves outside playing while their mommies are getting laid with the inmate. The only thing most inmates love are the things you can do for them it be legal or not. YOU WOMEN OUT THERE DESERVE BETTER AND SO DO YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!
Jack – You do realize the margin of error in our judicial system don't you? We have killed more than a hundred people who were proved thru DNA to have been innocent. And the US admits more than a third of people in prison today are innocent.
A third of 2,300,000 plus is over 750,000 people, innocently incarcerated. And that's just the number they admit to, i would bet it's accually higher.
With a system this erroneous how much more would you like to do to people who may be innocent afterall? They already have lost everything but the few people willing to love them.
I don't get a love nest, but i do believe these visits are good for all involved. They are accually family time. For spouses, children and parents. Inmates who are able to maintain family ties and encouragement to better themselves will be better than those without those things upon release. Thier children need those low stress family times. And most murders do come home, so you want them to come home as well as possible. That's why it's rehabilitation and no longer punishment. Atleast that's what we pay for. And certainly not what we get.
Off topic: I think that the whale should in no way be blamed for the tragedies that occured. The whale is an intelligent mammal , but is not expected to be bound by moral laws. The whale acted out of instinct. The whale has sucessfully bred in captivity, thereby helping the species continue. The trainer, I am sure, loved the whale and would not want to see it harmed in any way. Condolences to the family for the terrible accident that took their loved one.
He's a civilian.
@ Mickii Mcdonald
You are right on target for most inmates! I could not agree with you more. It is all about manipulation to see what they can get. It is like a survival technique... similar to a street person. I, too, have seen this and completely understand what you are saying. If you hang around drug addicts and those that commit other crimes, you will also be pulled into that life style.
We all have to take responsibility for our behaviors!
Luis – You are right all inmates are not alike, but all are human. No one has ever benefited by abandonment, neglect or abuse.
Not to meantion all the mentally ill we now warehouse to fill a bed. They get little to no care or treatment for thier illness, and we'll never punish them well.
Thank you for the kind words.
@rebecca.. You are right there are many mistakes made. That is another good reason to free up officer's time from pursuing victemless crimes that waste lives and resources for no good reason, other that to perpetuate a failed policy. There are a number of people who have been wrongfully convicted and even executed. Some by design others through error. That is why I tried to qualify my contention with the word "brutal" suggesting multiple killers, for, for instance, who's guilt is not in question. On tonight's show, an example would be Susan Atkins. There is little doubt that she indeed did violently stab to death the pregnant actress, Sharon Tate. She also participated in other murders. So that is an example of where this is used improperly, I think. May Susan Atkins rest in peace and her widower James seems like a nice man. So,when a murder is certain , I think they should be denied the priviledge of marital sex while imprisoned. Whether they can marry or not is another issue.
Mickii _ You are right about alot of what you say. However children don't visit criminals, they visit parents. If children are not being cared for and sex happening at the appropriate times like at night, why doesn't the institution deny the visits?
Cheating isn't something inmates have a market on! :)
And guards are busted everyday in this country for selling contraband in prisons. I believe 36 just got busted in fla for selling drugs, cell phones, mp3 players and sex. In super large quantities! So much for visitation being the main source. Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think women's suitcases can hold kilos.
I disagree with you regarding our mentally Ill. If you are discussing the DSM IV diagnosis of mental illness on Axis I. Seldom are they ever arrested. Their paranoia and delusions are not dangerous to others. In California we have wonderful programs that help a million mentally ill people. We provide hospitalization if needed when they are truly psychotic. We provide them with medications, temporary housing....and the list goes on....
Jack – You bring up a very good point. But i don't get the priviledge to start with. I would argue that children need the time with thier parents. And it should be used as such. I also don't have minor children, so it's not something for myself that i'm seeking.
I did agree with your post reguarding the whale incident.
Dodie I was speaking nationally. And we do warehouse the mentally ill. Ask some guards in different states and they'll tell you about all the hassles it's making for them. Or you could watch some prison shows, and see for yourself.
Each state has federal funding for the mentally ill. There may be some Axis II that are arrested; and possibly some Axis I. However, the Counties across the nation have the funding to take care of the majority of mentally ill people. Seldom are they dangerous. I have never seen it except with PTSD once or twice. Usually they are terrified due to their delusions or hallucinations. If there is a question, the courts will do a psychiatric evaluation. As with any operation, some do slip through the cracks.
@rebecca... Another issue concerning the visits for sex is this: because someone is charming enough, or whatever to procure a spouse while incarcerated, while others are unable to(even though the sexless one may have committed a lesser crime) should we give the charming killer the priviledge , while denying the others who have similar drives?
To carry this to a fair conclusion, wouldn't it follow that the state should afford the person who cannot procure a spouse for sex-visits, a prostitute to fulfill their similar drives? If you are willing to do that, then I would say, that you are being fair.
Also, to be consistent, I would suggest that those who are gay, should not be allowed to have liasons in prison with the same sex, if they have been proven to have committed particularly heinous acts. The prison should not be a tax supported love nest to pamper very violent type prisoners.
They should free a multitude who are in prison who have not really harmed anyone. But the very violent criminal, should not be pampered beyond basic humane treatment I feel. Prison should not be attractive. The object is to make people want to avoid being there.
You are right about officers being busted but they are few where I work. It's mainly visitors, free staff which include nurses, doctors, and teachers.
You would definately be surprised how much those women can pack in I've had to do those digusting strip searches.
As far as denying visits they do. We catch them doing so many unappropriate touching in front of their kids and we terminate the visits immediately. Some women have no shame whatsoever.
Thank You so much for tonights show " Prison Wives". We would like people to know that tonight's guests are an accurate depiction of the inmates loved ones. We have jobs, pay taxes and basically lead normal lives although on many levels we are also incarcerated along with the inmates. Would also like to have Larry King do a follow up show concerning the treatment of the families during visitations by the correctional officers which seems to go unchecked by the institution itself. Families are treated more than not as if they were the inmates, and are often verbally abused and humiliated by the correctional officers. A follow-up show would also help touch on how the taxpayers monies is being mis -used in the distribution of the care for the inmates, especially concerning medical issues. Since the mandatory cutback on work hours for the correctional officers, the officers have found a way to do overtime to make up for loss of hours by creating scenarios to legitimize unnecessary lockdown situations.
You make a strong point. The problem with drug addicts is that prison life is not a deterrent... not enough to stop drugs. Therefore, they are the revolving door filling up our court rooms and prisons. Eventually they end up becoming "institutionalized"
Jack – I don't think the family visit are so people can have sex explicitely. They are family visits and sex does happen, but the objective is to maintain family ties so inmates will stay conected and do better upon release. It's an attempt to keep families together. Atleast that's the purpose.
You crack me up. :)
Do you think we should let people out after they're seniors in wheel chairs and not a danger to society or should we take on being a nursing home?
Dodie That's because they still get drugs in prison. Easy and on a regular basis.
I am not suggesting that prisoners of all types should not have visits, and am not really against them getting married. But any relationships should be on a level that precludes sex acts with others, while they are serving a sentence for proven multiple violent crime for instance. I just consider that pampering, and also something that rewards some prisoners , while not others, regardless of how severe their crimes.
I totally agree with you prison should not be attractive. That's why most of them go back. It's sad to say but most inmates don't know how to live outside of the prison setting especially if they have spent most of their lives in prison.
As far as sex goes most get it. Have you heard of the term gay for the stay? If we could only communicate to the women what they do inside the prison they may think twice about visiting inmates.
I concur. Many addicts obtain drugs in prison. And they continue to obtain drugs on the outside. Sobriety comes from being responsible and from within. Many addicts do not take drugs in prison but run a muck while outside. Many are "institutionalized" Anyone in prison after 5 years stands a 80% chance of being "institutionalized" meaning they have lost the internal controls in which to conform to society.
Jack If you were locked in a closet with a toilet and another man, even if they allowed you to earn a family visit every three months would it make prison attractive to you? :)
If so you are a very easy to please man! :)
@Dodie...in reference to earlier comment...Yes castration does produce a rather visceral reaction...as you so well surmised. lol I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Dodie Most are abandoned and that leads to being institutionalized. And there are so many vets homeless because of drug addictions and thier inability to cope after wars and getting no assistance until recent years. Alot are in prisons now.
In Greece and China being arrested with drugs is life in prison. For that reason, those countries do not have much of a problem with drugs. If we ever want to stop the drug wars, we must stop our thirst for drugs! There is no other way. in the 1900s 1/3 of the Chinese were addicted to Opium. The only way they cleared that up was to make the penalty so horrible, people stopped. Is it kind? No. But they pretty much cured the problem in less than 100 years. I am not advocating we do the same... but it is a thought!
@rebecca...that is keeping it unattractive. I feel for your plight. And your motives seem to be righteous. You are willing to make the sacrifice and it sounds like he may be a reformed man. Best of luck to you both.
I understand... I just was teasing you. I am happy you do have a good sense of humor! :~)
@ Rebecca: We have board and care housing for the abandoned mentally ill people that need help at all levels from going to the bathroom to eating. Then we have "room and board" for those who can take care of themselves but need some structure and guidance.
You are correct for the Veterans. They were left out in the cold. Another one of America's tragic secrets. I do believe the VA has made headway. I hope there is funding someday for veterans, those that sacrificed everything for this country.
Also many mentally ill prefer to live under a bridge. Yes, I know it sounds crazy... well why not? They have their own network and groups. Many do not like to live in structured programs and prefer to be able to drink alcohol.
I believe that is what they did to my husband. Make an example of him. but if your husband served his country and they gave him drugs to help him fight and kill. Which gave him the addiction to start with, would you be so ready to sacrifice yours?
And the government is still the biggest supplier in this country. Busting thier competitors and the little dealers to make it appear that they are fighting the war on drugs.
They use cargo planes on your tax dollars to bring it in. Have you seen the documentary on cocaine cowboys? Showing the government's dealings in cocaine.
Many of the DEA are crooked. When you work in that area, I guess it is easy to become caught up with big money.
I am not sure the government would bother with Cocaine. It has only short term effects, has to be imported and expensive. Methamphetamine lasts a lot longer and you can make it in your kitchen.
My X husband was USAF in Greece... where I lived too. He fought in the middle east. No where did the government force drugs on him to kill. So I am not sure where you obtained this information. I worked for DOD and believe me, any drug use, the military person was shipped home immediately!
yes but uncle sam doesn't make money off of your kitchen products. Which is why they are really after that drug. They are making big bucks on imported drugs though.
Wow i'm getting tired and i've got to work tomorrow too.
This has been alot of fun. Talking with intelligent people who can discuss without the usual anger.
Hope we can do it again. :)
Goodnight Dodie and Jack :)
@ Dodie.. I think any sort of Prohibition should be based on the relative benefits or dangers of the particular substance. Using that criteria , for instance tobacco would be a strong contender for prohibition, being both highly addictive and very dangerous. Like many other areas , prejudice , and cultural bias, and commercial interests drive these decisions. Like rebecca, said they can find many drugs in prison . Some drugs like methedrine, tobacco, alcohol etc. can be problematic if abused. Others that may be illegal, if sold to adults, and were not used while driving , or doing certain types of jobs , would probably not harm society. When we consider all the money spent, people warehoused, families torn apart, violent cartels enabled to become wealthy , and liberties ignored, ending prohibition for certain substances may be the most prudent course.
I admire your willingness to stand up for your husband. I wish you and your family the very best!
Dodie i was talking about veitnam vets. And the government did supply the troops with opium and heroin.
You are a wise man! To support your statement, Alcohol is the most toxic drug known to man. It takes out all organs. The only reason it takes longer duration is because they can not make it even close to 100% or it would kill you. And it is legal. I agree with cultural bias and prejudices...
Legalization is another alternative. I do not know where that path will take us. There are sooooooo many people addicted to drugs these days, at every level and walk of life. I am not sure of the impact on this country in the long run. What we are doing now is certainly not working. It would be tragic if we ended up a country whereby 80% of the people are addicted to drugs....
You are correct. In Vietnam, the troops were given drugs!
Jack Well said! I do wish my husband would give up all drug use and for now he has. And it is prevalent where he is so i think he's doing well at this time.
He's not perfect and has always admited that fact. While i don't think lwop is the right answer. i do love the man he is and the heart he has. We were together before this sentence, and i don't judge others for thier situations after prison incarceration relationships.
I don't seek pity and can speak out without anger for all the vets in prison who should be getting help.
But for me the choice was easy to stand by him. And i will admit the road is hard at times, yet it also has it rewards in courage, strength and character building and then there's the sex. :) lol
I'm truely going now. God Bless you Both :)
The Vietnam war has just torn families apart. The tragedy still lives in these people and their families. America did everything wrong in that war. The DEROS made it a very personal war.... it encapsulated the pain within the person. The men came back and within 24 hours ended up on the streets with no recourse other to deal with the pain on their own... The average age was 19. 57,000 men died. hundreds of thousands wear the internal scars for the rest of their lives. Agent Orange and other chemicals used created deformed children or sterilization. It was a mess! It was tragic! The suffering was holistic and incomprehensible.
Rebecca-I was writing about people who start a relationship or marry someone who they had not known prior to that incarceration.For example the Menendez brother. I've heard Scot Peterson has had several marriage proposals-Drew Peterson probably has women corresponding with him. I have a friend fell in love with a man who was incarcerated 2 months after they met for real estate fraud. She knew almost from day 1 there was a possibility he would be jailed. His sentence was only for 3 months. They continued the relationship intermittently for 3 years.They never cohabitated. After the relationship ended she informed me she knew he was wrong for her almost from the moment they met. He was the typical con man–affectionate,knew all the right words to say,wrote her poetry,& beautiful letters.During the 3 years she said it felt as if she was on a high even though it was not always good.She never even told her daughter he had been in jail........only two friends knew of their situation. After analyzing everything after the relationship-she still shakes her head with bewilderment why she would have allowed it to happen. She still is embarassed re: her poor choice & this happened 15 yr.ago.
In the late 1980's, I took my foster son to the prison (CIW Chino) to visit his Mother who happens to be still incarcerated, James Whitehouse was there visiting Aitkins, he would speak to us as we waited outside the gate to enter, I also had my own two sons with me. Once we got into the prison many times he would engage the boys in a game of Yatzee with Susan. I visited the prison for about one year so we had many contacts with him. That was a long time ago but I clearly remember him.
Yes , the Vietnam war was a mess, but our government, the politicians and the generals did not learn anything from it.
Even today, 30 years after the end, thousands of vietnamese children are born with defects caused by our agent orange. As you say, american children are also effected.
During the first Iraq war we used uranium coated shells that poisoned a great part of that land and OUR SOLDIERS!!!
Thousands came home sick and will be sick for the rest of their lives.
Anybody cares for them? No, the military denies that such an illness is effecting those poor men and women who fought in that war!
Rebecca, to answer your question. We had been divorced for 3 years when my ex-wife became involved with this inmate. She was actually engaged to another guy and was 6 months pregnant with his baby when she became involved in the sexual relationship with the murderer. Yes I do blame the West Virginia DOC for this happening because I was told by them that with the classification he had he was to be in a higher security prison and they did not know what happened along the way for him to be at this lower security prison. Their mistake was the beginning of my nightmare. Rebecca, you have no clue what I have been through and I live in another state all together then my children due to my job and I am trying to get custody of my children but it is very difficult when you live in another state.
@ Donnie-presently if I were you–the only thing I would concern myself with any matter concerning you children. What happened between you& your wifeis finished. Sometimes wasted time is spent on wondering why. She has another life-- your blaming the DOC is only aggravating you–so,you'll have to get on with things. I definitely wouldn't want my children involved with their mother's significant other. If she wants to have a relationship with the criminal–that's her business–there's nothing you can do. I would try to get it legally done your children have no contact with him in person,via telephone or the net.
As usual, you are right on the money! The government continues to use callus and impervious tactics when it comes to our war veterans. There seems to be this opinion in Washington… war veterans are expendable; one that resonates ‘sear irritation’ with me.
I am not giving a second thought to what happened between my ex-wife and I. The concern I have is of my children and the fact they have no contact with this inmate. I have spoken with Huttonsville Corrections facility where he is currently housed and they have assured me that no more phone contact will be permitted between my young children and this inmate. I am currently in the process of trying to have a change of custody hearing but as I stated before we do not live in the same state so that is a major barrier in this situation and a change of custody being granted is what I am being told.
I would like to warn all women not to become involved with prison inmates! Years ago I was asked if I would be pen pals with A man who I was told was lonely because he had recently lost his mother and had no surviving family. I was recently divorced and decided it wouldn't hurt to become his friend and it was the biggest mistake of my life. At first it was okay to write back and forth but as time wore on this man started to ask for phone calls and visits and money for things he claimed he really needed. I began to feel like nothing more than a link he was using to the outside world. I eventually couldn't take it anymore when my phone bill got so high I couldn't keep it paid and to this day i cannot have A phone in my name. When I tried to break things off this man gave my name and address to every inmate at the prison, he wrote to my parents telling them awful lies about me, he called my job collect constantly until I was fired.He even had someone call the police dept in my town to tell them I was selling drugs out of my home. It was humiliating beyond belief to be escorted to the police dept and be interrogated by them. I eventually found out he had been married 8 times and was still married. I had to change my name and move to a new town but everyday I still look over my shoulder.
@Rosanna Callahan 2/2/6/10 @ 14.:50 Hrs(2.50 P.M.)
Great comment with little fanfare and a lot of substance..
There is more to prison life than sterilization, brain surgery and
life in prison for drug addicts. Concerning the latter: that
illegal drugs were eradicated from Greece because drug addicts
were sentenced to life in prison (I disagree). Nothing will be gained
if the U.S. and NATO kill most Taliban insurgents(militants) and
spare the top Taliban leaders. They will recruit new insurgents
in momment's glanceo (on the blink of an eye). The same goes
for drug addiction. Most drug dealers are happy to sdee their
customers go to prison because they already had become a
liability. They need new blood that can promote their business
Most prisons have become a corporation as Rosanna explains
with too many benefits for the Dept. of Corrections (DOC) and
nothing for prisoners that are not there serving a life term. Most
prisoners are treated worse than pigs creaing a hostile
psychology that in most cases permanently mutate prisoners
thus creating the recidismi syndrome. Prisoners are receive
aid from local, state and federal government, yet in most
prisons they live a life of squalor. True you say that you don't
go to prison to party and enjoy life but a long prison term is
no party either and corporal and mental punishment should not
part of the combo for the benefit not only of the prisoner but
the families and soicety in general. Treating regular prisoners
like murderers on death row is not the solution to breed good
behavior and preparation for the average prisoner to go back
to society. Seventy (70) of the prisoners are good people who
can be salvage and reintroduced back to normal life in the
the community. Otherwise 95 percent of prisoners will
eventually go back and forth to prison creating a vicious cycle
that will never end. Even prisoners from both world wars,
North Korea, Vietnam (POWs) are still suffering the effects of
torture(PTS), even after they had been welcome back to society
as heroes. The lasting effect of torture (whether corporal or
mental) documentaries, testimonials, books and legal pamphlets
in psychology and psychiatry show open wounds and scars
ever present in the minds of victims and prisoners. Check it
out ; for all those involved in law enforcement, psychologgy,
psychotherapy and social programs. The science of corrections
is a very complicated task and a subject that is contiunuously
and ever in need for research update and revamping.
LIFE IN PRISON IS NO PARTY FOR ALL: DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS, PRISONERS, FAMILIES AND SOCIETY.
It is a necessary evil but it is not a cure for all and those who
advocate the wrong system will be witness to "weeds, harmful
insects and bad weather" ruined the crops leaving behind
total devastation. We have to work together to alleviate conditions
not exarcerbate evil passions fron either side.
Those who who talk about gay life converting all prisoners
to gays are probably the same that oppose gays in the military.
It is the wrong notion and faulty science. There gay community
is about 10 to 15 percent in prisons as it is before you go prison.
And most gays are there not to rape and convert others but to
enjoy whatever liberties (if any ) they can enjoy from willing and
able contacts. I'm in no way shape, or form endorsing the gay
community. I'm just writing the facts as I see them to be fair to all.
We don't need Guantanamo and Abu Ghabi in the United
States prisons system. Of course we got some prisoners tjhat
away with murder and we too have prisoners that were wrongly
sentenced to death, death row, or life in prison that were
exonarated later (most times a litle too late). Of course we
have correction officers that have been the victims of the wrath
of aggressive and violent prisoners. (All in a days work). We
have to sort the good from the bad and continue ahead without
recriminations and vengeance from sides concerned. " It is the
only way. ( Not the fool-proof way.)"
Theresa- I just didn't think everyone should be put into one catagory as each situation is different.
Donnie- I do agree with what Theresa said. Forget about your ex-wife and make this about your children. Who someone has sex with has been out of the court picture for along time. To persue that issue at all will get in the way of what you seek to accomplish. As it will be viewed as is your being jealous. Sorry that you are going threw this.
Luis-Nice! The system needs constructive work on all sides! :)
And i agree-it doesn't matter wether you are in prison or out-abandonment, abuse or neglect has never benefited any human being. And it is the loss of freedom that's the greatest punishment! All the benes in the world wont make up for the loss of your freedom and family. Getting up and going to bed when someone else says to, wearing ugly clothes, eating slop, not being able to attend funerals and wondering if something will happen to those you love before you get out etc rank right up there. So mental torture for those that are getting out soon is counter productive to becoming a nieghbor.
I agree it's a lower percentage of inmate that needs to stay for life.
After all change happens in an instant. The instant a person makes a commitment to themselves that they want to change! And coupled with education, skills, counceling etc contributes to thier success.
i'm all for staff and guards getting higher pay, more training and more staff!!!! But i'm also against attacking unarmed people with all sorts of weapons!!!!!
For your reply and understanding about prison life for both
DOC and the prisoner(s). The plight is bad for one and the blight
is worse for the other. It depends on the individual situation but
in most instances the prisoner will be the loser because they have
little irights. I feel for Donnie who alleges that his wife fell in love
with a convicted murderer and the woman who alleges her
husband fell in love with a corrections officer but these two
examples are exception rather than the rule. Prison life is
" the worst it could happen to you." Even a well-treated dog
permanently held in a cage shows the scars of imprisonment."
@Luis You are right about animals showing scars after being locked up for awhile. Might i add thier behavior also changes while locked up, yet once in a home environment they will come around again.
So i would guess that proves with enough time and proper love and assistance – inmates also have the potential to come around as well! And not the institutionalized lost cause some would try to say they are! :)
And it is a great arguement for human treatment to start with. Not to meantion it's cheaper to treat people right to begin with verses – mistreatment during incarceration and treatment to correct damage caused from the incarceration. Just a thought for those concerned with how thier money is spent.
I hope that somebody other than me is reading yourr comments
regarding this subject because they appear to be impartial and
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