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August 31, 2009

Larry King Live Tonight!

Posted: 05:36 PM ET

art_garrido_justiceAn EXCLUSIVE  interview with Katie Calloway Hall, who was abducted and raped by Phillip Garrido in 1976. Garrido is now charged with abducting Jaycee Dugard at age 11, holding her captive for 18 years and fathering two children with her. Find out what Hall has to say about Garrido and why she knew he would strike again.

And why did Jaycee Dugard wait 18 years before revealing her real identity? Why did she help Garrido with his printing business? Did she have some form of Stockholm Syndrome? Larry talks to Dugard's stepfather and people who came into contact with her during her years in captivity.

That's all tonight at 9pmET/6pmPT. Don't miss it!

Do you think Jaycee Dugard suffered from Stockholm Sydrome?

Filed under: Crime • Larry King Live


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David   August 31st, 2009 6:34 pm ET

Right away everybody is a psychological expert; throwing around "complete isolation" and "Stockholm Syndrome." Maybe he just convinced her that her parents were dead and he was the only person left to "care" for her. The first thing Jaycee said to her mother was, "Mom, I have babies!" That is very telling. Maybe she was content with her life and living with "her babies." Maybe she thought if she went back home her kids would be taken away. Stockholm Syndrome may be a reason, but it's not the be all and end all explanation for every case like this. Garrido was in prison for four years on a parole violation during the time Jaycee was living on his property. Why didn't she try getting the neighbors attention? I'm sure she had hundreds of opportunities to speak to someone.


Anne   August 31st, 2009 7:06 pm ET

This story is disgusting. I will not watch your show tonight Larry. But how about a future show with Liza Minelli and Jane Fonda about Michael Jackson's good works?


Torri Eley   August 31st, 2009 7:29 pm ET

"will i have a comment about michael jackson" well people think that it is funny that got burne durin the pepsi commerical do u think that is nice but i dont but will happen to michael things if his mother get control of his music.i am only14 his family and him inspiree to live my dream as singing. but can u follow up on his homicide so everything comes to peace who will get the charges


Torri Eley   August 31st, 2009 7:32 pm ET

so far u did good by gettin jermaine jackson on the show and followin up on things without your show i will be lost bout the info in the world


Doreen Mason   August 31st, 2009 7:47 pm ET

This shouldn't even be a question. The answer is obviously YES! As a newborn would bond with their mother, or any adult closely available in their dependant lives, so would a captive person, especially a child bond with their captor. It is an instinctive behaviour and key to their survival.


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 7:52 pm ET

With the Stockholm syndrome, she identified with her captor because he threatened her life. Because she was only 11 years of age, it was easier for her to adapt to the situation. If you are unable to free yourself and suffer continued beatings or threats to your life, you just give up. Especially at the age of 11. Feelings also become repressed and detached which is another coping strategy. I am sure Garrido threatened her life numerous times and when she had children, he probably threatened their lives.

She saw ((( no safe way out for her and her children and ended up accepting her situation and relationship with Garrido))) It’s called ((learned helplessness)).

The only time she felt able to talk was when she entered the police department. This is not about memory. This is about behaving in a way in order to survive. She has PTSD and will have the same symptoms as a POW (Denial- Guilt-- Rage- and Depression...... and maybe someday, acceptance)!

The children have no community social skills. They will be daunted with numerous questions for years to come.

This is the problem when we continue to release sex crime offenders and murderers. They will NEVER change. A little stress will cause them to revert back to those old outrageous behaviors even after years of therapy. Garrido has not only destroyed Jaycee’s life, but her 2 children as well. He raped Jaycee when she was a child, why not her 2 children? (That fits in his profile)

More will be revealed!

@ David

Could it possibly be that some of us who blog on to CNN are clinical Psychologists???


Cherry Simpson   August 31st, 2009 8:02 pm ET

What happened to Jaycee should be thought of and treated as torture.

She and her daughters endurred years of imprisonment, detention, enforced isolation, extreme physical and mental abuse and may have ended in death. Having been raped, beaten, probibly worse, burned, deprived of sleep, food and human contact. It's purpose was to break them. What she learned in order to survive, can make living later unbearable, causing post-traumatic stress even in some cases brings about suicide years later.

The only reality was the power of her abuser; keeping her head low kept her and her kids alive. The shame of being who she was – as if that's the real reason for her subordination – leads to trying to become who you are not and never can be – in the eyes of their abuser.


Bobbi C   August 31st, 2009 8:18 pm ET

I don't even know where to begin. I feel like there's a jungle in my mind about this Jaycee tragedy. First, the penal system must be held responsible. A man like this should have been locked up forever.
Second, the parole officer. He should be fired immediately. He had to have turned away from this. He certainly wasn't doing his job.
Third, the police. The deputy who was assigned to investigate the premises after the 911 phone call should also be fired immediately.
Is it laziness or just not caring enough? Nothing & no one will ever give back this girl's life. Worse yet is the lives of her 2 children, who have never known another life. Did these children ever get medical attention? Immunity shots? Dental care? Were they too raped by this monster? This just goes beyond anything human.


Cindy   August 31st, 2009 8:42 pm ET

This poor girl is a victim and so is her children. What a nightmare it must have been. Larry could you ask her what it's like to see the world as it is today compared to the day she was kidnapped? It must be so different for her. I hope this couple who kidnapped her spend the rest of their lives in prison. That's the only justice there can be.


Helen   August 31st, 2009 8:56 pm ET

Jaycee Dugard suffered from Stockholm Sydrome. Her long captivity resulted in an inevitable bond with her captors, and the only attention she received was from these captors. The food and shelter they gave her, was most probably perceived as acts of kindness. Emotional bonding with her captors was the only strategy for Jaycee's survival. To resist would have been her demise. She had no choice but to go along with their desires. The arrival of Jaycee's children brought on new fears, and self preservation became secondary to maternal protective instincts.


Emily   August 31st, 2009 9:02 pm ET

Of course she suffered from Stockholm Syndrome! He kept her hostage and probably brainwashed the poor girl! I hope he the law really hits him in the head!


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 9:04 pm ET

Thank you Katie for the interview! This is very courageous of you! It must bring up a lot of pain and fear. I can hear it in your voice.


Pete   August 31st, 2009 9:10 pm ET

It seems that society has little understanding of the effects of rape of a small child, a lost life. I was raped from ages 8 to 10, sodomized. I was a small boy. On one occasion I was gang raped by four. And another occasion I was intentionally suffocated after being raped at a camp. I played dead and slept in the woods. Those adults that raped me all knew each other.

I never told anyone, that is until I allowed the memories to come in. The trigger was when my son turned the age I was when abused. The worst trauma was realizing I never lived a life. Today I am mentally ill due to the damaged caused by them. I can do nothing because the laws protect the pedophiles.

Two years ago, two of my abusers held a camp for disadvantaged boys. I went to the FBI and they could do nothing. I worked with an agent who was told by his supervisor to forget cases that are protected by statutes. One of the rapists friends was arrested just three years ago for lewd behavior, he was 86.

I victim's life is unimaginable. You go through life without the ability to concentrate. You laugh when everyone else laughs to seem normal, yet you have no idea of what they laughed at. Life's goal is to let no one know anything is wrong, everything is always perfect. A life of on guard well into deep adulthood.

California fixed the law and opened a window legislation which enabled the exposure of over 300 child molesters. NY tried but a certain organization pays top notch lobbyist to stop the laws from going forward, a religious organization no less. A few in the New York Assembly follow the lead of the lobbyist, yet they have no common sense reason for their stand.

The most violent pedophiles will traumatize the victim well into late life while the pedo is protected by laws, the Perfect Crime. Crimes can be collaborated and pedos average over 80 victims, these are witnesses. Proof becomes easy. It is our law makers who will not preserve our civil rights and instead award rights to the pedos. The ones that raped little children no less.

What can we do to help society understand the life long effects on victims?


Steve   August 31st, 2009 9:15 pm ET

I think it is in extremely poor taste that you are making this woman recount the blow-by-blow details of a rape that occurred 25 years ago. I am so repulsed that I turned off your show. I thought you had more class than this.


Karin, Pacifica   August 31st, 2009 9:19 pm ET

Of course! I think this story makes me a believer.


sindia warne   August 31st, 2009 9:24 pm ET

that is strange that the father has not talked with her. Please have a doc explain this.....is this a problem with men


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 9:33 pm ET

GREAT questions Larry! Thanks


Carolene   August 31st, 2009 9:34 pm ET

I can't believe anyone would read this story and deny the control the animal had over Jaycee and suggest that she is at fault for staying in that situation. *You* are additional monsters we should be afraid of.

My heart and prayers go out to Jaycee and her children, three innocent victims of crimes our government won't even allow on terrorists. Simply disgusting.


Linda Mills   August 31st, 2009 9:39 pm ET

How can Scott say he's proud of the parole officer when he didn't go into the property of Garrido? This is a 100% fault of the officer. Get real Scott. Do you think you would feel the same if this happened to your daughter. How can these people draw a pay cheque from the tax payer?


John P. Bowles   August 31st, 2009 9:40 pm ET

Why wasn't Garrido administered lie detector tests commensurate with his parole visits? As Garrido's parole officer admitted that Garrido was a "sick puppy" and that he was "likely to offend again," why wasn't Garrido given unannounced spot visits at his home and work place by the parole officer? The willingness of the California Parole Department to state the parole officer acted with "due diligence" given the parole officer's aforementioned knowledge of this Garrido's status as a dangerous offender likely to re-offend, baffles me!


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 9:41 pm ET

Pete!

Incredibly courageous of you to share this personal information. My recommendation would be write a book to begin with. The net profits maybe you can start a center.

I worked with war vets for a couple of years in the early late 1970s to 1980s. The best therapy was working in a group who all experienced the same issue. At least you won't feel alone!

My heart goes out to you!


Nancy   August 31st, 2009 9:45 pm ET

I don't understand how the CA parole office can say that the po officer did his job!!!! That house could have been search a hundred times over the 18 years. The officer had every right to search the house, to question the neighbors, 20 years on parole and no over site. JC I hope you become a millionare out of this!!! People convicted of lesser crimes are supervised more than this manic. His po officer said he was a nut case and I bet his wife is too.


Kim   August 31st, 2009 9:48 pm ET

I am watching LK live now. Please don't assume anything from the "compliant" behavior of Jaycee's children. Being "well-mannered" has nothing to do with being well cared for in any physical or psychological sense. Let us not assume anything about this case. Or whether Jaycee adapted, or did not adapt etc.


amy c   August 31st, 2009 9:50 pm ET

ANNE- you say this story is disgusting so your not interested in watching the show tonight!! What if something like this happened to your child? Would you then just turn your head in disgust and do nothing? No, I'm sure then it would be a different story. All of america needs to be watching this show and every show on that is telling this story and stories like it. Something more needs to be done to protect our children from freaks like him, and believe me he is not the only one out there that is capable of such a thing!!! If everyone acts likes an idiot like you, then nothing will ever get done to stop these awful people that prey on women and children. Open your eyes and get involved to help pass stricter laws!!!!! But look who I'm telling this too...Liza Minelli, Jan Fonda, and Micheal Jackson....Ha! ! Tori at least your just a child.


Tina   August 31st, 2009 9:52 pm ET

Of course she is! It does not matter in the least what she did to survive this monster...WHAT MATTERS IS SHE SURVIVED!!!!


jeannie   August 31st, 2009 9:52 pm ET

larry,
Asking this lady on your show tonight how she got over her rape and then asked her husband did he have reseravations about marrying her and pointing to her as if to say she was damaged by the rape how could he marry her. this was appaling
You should have been much more sensitive as to what this women had gone through. I would have gotten up and walked out


Pat   August 31st, 2009 9:52 pm ET

I am a parole officer (not in CA). I exclusively supervise sexual and violent offenders. Our standards demand we make at least one home visit, unannounced, each month, the second contact may be made at the office or their place of employment (I, however, only made home contact, 2x mo.) ..... during said visit, the entire home, yard (front & back) and any "out-buildings," were searched. Furthermore, these offenders were not allowed internet access, therefore, this, too, was something to look for each visit. When these calls by neighbors were made to authorities regarding suspicious behavior and the children around the offender's residence, had said authorities known or checked relative to his SO status, they, then should have contacted his PO ...... subsequently, allowing entrance into the home and back yard WITHOUT a Search Warrant – Sexual Offender Parolees have no rights in that regard. This entire case is just sad and should have been solved LONG ago. The CA Dept of Corrections is scrambling now, trying to assuage their incompetent actions – too little, too late. In the state where I work, all SO Parolees MUST attend Sex Offender Therapy EVERY week ... may not prevent them from re-offending, but, it is another tool to keep an eye on these pervs and note ANY change in behavior. Ok ........ off my soap box, now!


John H   August 31st, 2009 9:52 pm ET

@Steve...I can understand how you can be repulsed by the reality of this man's actions but turning off the show does not erase the fact that this happened and continues to happen all around the world. It is important that these things are brought to light in order for people to fight back against these animals. Garrido did not see this woman or the eleven year old Jaycee as persons but rather things to be used for his pleasure. Knowing it goes on and being alert to what goes on around us may be the only defense these children have.


Judy Willis   August 31st, 2009 9:54 pm ET

Of course. you end up trusting the person that feeds you. when she wasn't found I am sure there was a story about how her family didn't want her anymore. this is the worst nightmare a mother could have ,I am a mother of 5 ,and a grandmother .My heart is breaking for them
I hope she is treated with kindness ,and compassion.
God bless them
The police were so wrong for letting him out of a life setence. After only 11 years. for not following up at once on the stepfathers eye witness account. For not following through on the tip called in in 06.
What a poor job,or lack of doing anything!!! it makes me sick.


Pete   August 31st, 2009 9:56 pm ET

Thanks Dottie

There is much more to the story. I have written a book though my skills are poor, so nothing will happen. No funds as a single dad. I come from a family of very high scholastic achievers. I too was until this happened, I struggled since. You can probably tell by my poor grammar. There is much more to this that people need to know. The most violent pedophiles will harm their victims for a life time. While these pedos are free, they are able to traumatize new children who also will take years to come forward.

These violent pedos are likely to kill the victim, whether intentional or not. Today we can not scare them with arrest because of statutes of limitations that protect them. NY has the worst laws. It really is the Perfect Crime.

The FBI has told me that many times pedos find out about each other when in the same organization, they share opportunities. Imagine if we could get them to rat on one another. The child will not tell, they are in a trauma. They have to pretend life from that point forward. Exceptions ate those that someone might notice something wrong with the child. The problem is the child will pretend better than any actor so no one finds out.


Denise B   August 31st, 2009 9:56 pm ET

Does Larry realize that he is speaking with someone who is a rape victim and survivor? Where does he get off asking her husband whether or not he was still willing to marry her? What kind of a question is that.....


Jo   August 31st, 2009 10:01 pm ET

I was wondering how the wife of this man was involved. Have not heard anthing about her, just at the end of the show, the doctor mentioned it. Would like to learn more about that.


Jessie Carera   August 31st, 2009 10:02 pm ET

My qustion is in reference to the Corrections Spokesman. And Larry, what happened to your questions? You failed me. Here are my questions. The Spokesman said the parole officer was in compliance. So the parole officer never entered the house or went to back yard? The spokesman even sounds like he was checking off a block instead of doring the actual work of what a parole officer is suppose to do. When the Spokesman was questioned if he sees any changes on this case, response was very luke warn; again that they were in compliance, meeting the state laws. That is just plain 'BS'. If anything that this is a perfect example that they have to go back review the system b/c something is wrong. Again, the system is broken and I have yet to hear any one taking responsiblity. And there in lies the problem.


Becky   August 31st, 2009 10:04 pm ET

"I Drove home slow today from work looking in nieghbors back yards" Please everyone be aware who lives in your area.. We owe it to the victums.. I am so upset there are people getting away with this madness!!


Kim   August 31st, 2009 10:06 pm ET

A law should be made in Jaycee's name that every sex offender's property be search from top to bottom, front to back, weekly/monthly at the least and at no given time!


amy c   August 31st, 2009 10:08 pm ET

Pete, kudos to you for sharing your story. I too was raped reapeately as a child, but by a family member instead of a stranger. When it's a family member your expected to forgive and forget and somehow still love them. You grow up just acting. Acting the way your told to act and and saying what your told to say, never letting your feeling or pain show. You end up doing what you can to appear "normal" so the world will never know and the whole time protecting your abuser! Its no way to live. Eventually you find you just can't live this way and must deal with the emotional, mental, and physical scars that you are left with that will always be a part of you, that defines who you are, left to wonder what kind of person you could have been if not for this baggage!!! This is a very rough road that effects every part of your life, and every person in your life. Nobody should be allowed to distroy a person like this!!! Laws need to be tighter and parents need to talk more about this to thier children!!!!


louis kecki   August 31st, 2009 10:08 pm ET

larry king the news is very important and i appreciate the news every night, the only problem i have is your show is swamped with too many commercials like all the other news casters. why do we need so much coverage on the commercials , i'd like to see them slack off. we see all the products in stores every day in and out. it would be nice to watch tv with out all that crap.i hope these things can recede some how.


Pete   August 31st, 2009 10:17 pm ET

Amy,

My best to you. Many times people will attempt to place themselves in your position and say they would have done differently. The fact is they would likely have done the same as you. It is horribly traumatizing for you. unimaginably so. To those who feel they would have handled it differently I remind them of those in the 911 jets. These were adults who just sat there. They were scared and justifiably so. Yet how many were there? And how many times have we heard from others what they would have done if they were in the jet? People think they would have been different. You know this well, they would have acted in the same way.

Good luck to you..


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 10:21 pm ET

Your writing is good. You come through clear and concise! Many authors leave the language and spelling to their editors. I just can not even imagine in my worst nightmares what you experienced. Writing a book will accomplish several things.

1. You are finally able to fully tell “your story”
2. Writing helps with the grieving process. It’s painful. I suggest you have emotional support.
3. You will be able to make some money and then can choose what you would like to do with it.

This is a good example that people need to see with ‘open’ eyes! Many times, people do not want to experience others’ pain because of their own personal issues.

Yes, I completely agree with you. It is extremely rare for any of these rapists/murders, etc to ever change. For change to occur they have to do several things.

1. Really look at their behavior; take responsibility & emotionally grow up.
2. When that happens, they will see themselves as a monster. Only then, can they begin the healing process. Most people stop at step 1.

I agree with you. I could hear it in Katie’s voice and your words. Basically, this life experience has changed, altered and possibly ruined your life. Jaycee is still in shock. Yes, she knows how to act…she had 18 years experience. She does not want anyone to know what is going on inside of her. PTSD is very very difficult to remove, because it is caught up with our survivor skill.

I got caught up in a war as a child because of traveling in another country. To this day, I can not tolerate balloons or fire crackers and that was 50 years ago. My professor DX me with PTSD and I stood up in class swearing and stormed out. Something I would never do. I knew then, he was right!

Pete: Remember! Just because we feel a certain way, does not mean we are that way!


Pete   August 31st, 2009 10:23 pm ET

Pat, I believe no one faults your work. I am more than positive the Parole Officer felt horrible. Even the neighbors were fooled..

Thank you for the wonderful work you and those as you have done. I and many others do appreciate it.


Katherine Angueira   August 31st, 2009 10:30 pm ET

While working for a Rape Crisis Center in Puerto Rico, I was kidnapped and gang raped in 1978 by three men. Ever since I have dedicated part of my professional life in lobbying and advocating for public policy development to strengthen rape victims rights in the judicial process. In relation with Katherine Callaway's story, evidently the Corrections Undersecretary has a very serious conflict of interest with the parole officer in charge of supervising Garrido. He is also responsible in the chain of command for the evident negligence in his supervisory role.

Since 1996 I have been active establishing case law in Puerto Rico with respect to a victim's right to be notified and given an active participation by giving an informed opinion before the Parole Board before early release is granted. This meant that I established jurisprudence that a victim of violent crime has the right to have access to prisoners records in order to review and analyze with experts the alleged 'rehabilitation" criteria in order to prepare her informed statement before the parole board before the determination is made of whether to grant parole. In a landmark case in Puerto Rico, in 2000 the Supreme Court ordered the Parole Board to hand over all of the sexual offenders records including his medical, psychological and psychiatric records in order to prepare my informed statement. Because of the Parole Boards contempt of Supreme Court Orders to this effect, all nine parole board members were found in contempt and sanctioned. This in turn led to administrative charges filed by Puerto Rico's Governor for their removal.

After years


carol kesling   August 31st, 2009 10:31 pm ET

i hope jaycee and her girls get all the medical and phycological and etc help they will need to help them all process this trauma... i think she did whatever she had to stay alive and survive this nightmare !!!!!!!! that man should never see the light of day again.......the WORLD WILL REMEMBER HIS FACE AND NAME !!!T HOPEFULLY THE PAROLE BOARD WILL WATCH HIM A LITTLE CLOSER...........


Pat   August 31st, 2009 10:31 pm ET

Pete – no, no – I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

My intent was to point out the CORRECT way to supervise Sexual Offenders ..... I KNOW I do my job and do it well ..... the offender's Parole Officer, not so much .... obviously one of those who is only concerned with "what looks good on paper," i.e., reports, stats ........ not so much in performing the duties he/she was hired to do ....... PROTECT THE PUBLIC!!!!!! And, THIS time, it not only came back to bite him in the a$$, but allowed victims to continue to be victimized for all those years!


Pete   August 31st, 2009 10:34 pm ET

Hey Dottie. Thanks.

I have written to Larry King and Oprah several times. It seems they are hard to get a hold of. I have a 20 page summary that I would love to have them read. They receive so many emails, it is unlikely they would read.

Even though I struggle day to day with finances, due to my illness caused by them, I am not out for money for my experience. ( Yes I do work as best I can, I am far from lazy.) I want people to know that those who stop the laws,lawmakers, are encouraged by money and votes, by those that need to keep the secrets.

Sad is that it is the children who lose.


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 10:38 pm ET

Pete,

my last post was for you

Pat!

I work for the local government with people just released from prison for drugs and with a diagnosis of mental illness. I work with parole officers every day. It is horrible in California. California is broke and can not hire enough parole officers so they are just doing the best job they can possibly do.


sally   August 31st, 2009 10:41 pm ET

I am just too sensitive to know/learn/read about this..let's have some happy positive thoughts/subjects..I am 80 yrs young..


amy c   August 31st, 2009 10:42 pm ET

pete
Your correct in saying that people just don't understand. I can't tell you how many times I was asked why didn't you just tell someone. And they really are confused farther when I say I just couldn't. As an adult, but not til my 30's, I did get the courage to tell my mother, and was asked by her not to say anything because she didn't want her family torn apart. It was important to her that we all still get together for holidays and birthdays. Can you believe that one? And yet beinging a women of that age, I did as she asked and continue to. In someways I am scared that I might be inabling him to do the same to another and will never be able to forgive myself if I ever find that is true, but in otherways I am still (at 40 now) still that scared child. But i have let him know if I find out that he ever touches another child he will not have to worry about jail!!! And I have done some work to help tighten the laws to protect children. The only thing that I have found is to talk to other people like yourself that caries the same scars and understand them. If you ever need to talk or would like some help in writting your book, i would love to be that person. Just not sure how to get my personal info to you and not the rest of the world.


Pat   August 31st, 2009 10:42 pm ET

Pete, forgive my bad manners .......... I am so sorry you had to experience the horror you did as a child.

God Bless You.


Pat   August 31st, 2009 10:49 pm ET

Dodie, I understand the under-funded, over-worked thingy ...... however, when a person takes an oath to protect the public, that's serious. Same with child protection workers ...... we are talking about peoples' lives, here.

Most officers in every state are overloaded with cases – you double-time it, work o/t, w/o pay, whatever, imo, it takes ....... or change professions.

That's just the way I see/do it. How would you see it if this had happened to your child?


Katherine Angueira   August 31st, 2009 10:56 pm ET

While working as a victims' advocate at Rape Crisis Center in Puerto Rico, I was kidnapped and gang raped by three rapists in 1978. Since then I have dedicated a great part of my professional experience as a social community psychologist to develop and lobby for public policy to strengthen victims rights.

With respect to Katherine Callaways' story, it is quite evident that the California Under Secretary of Corrections has a very serious conflict of interest with the parole officer assigned to supervise Garrido. In the chain of command, he may also be responsible for the apparent negligence in the way he was not thorough while carrying out home visits and interviews with parolee. It is no excuse that the neighbors supposedly did not see what the State should have seen and investigated with State's authority.

With respect to Larry King's question if policy changes need to be made the answer is YES!!! Since 1996 in Puerto Rico I took on a monumental task of confronting the local parole authorities for violating my rights as a rape survivor. As such, in 2000 I established landmark caselaw, providing crime survivors access to prisoners' records in order to have active participation in preparing an informed opinion before the Parole Board as part of the procedure in adjudicating or rejecting parole. Victims of crime have the right to be notified of parole hearings, have the right to be present, and have the right to present informed statement. The informed statement is prepared after reviewing all of the prisoners' records including, but not limited to medical, psychological and psychiatric records with expert witness to be able to review whatever, if any, criteria are used to determine the so called " rehabilitation" that merits an early release benefit.

Yet, even after Puerto Rico's Supreme Court ordered a nine member Parole Board to give us access to prisoners' records, they were found in contempt of Court for violating said order. The sanctions ordered by the Court was the evidence used by the Governor in Puerto Rico to file administrative charges for their removal; which was the first time an entire administrative board was removed because of its incompliance with their responsabilities.

I my humble opinion, California has yet to learn from our experience in Puerto Rico. If interested I may provide you with ample background information of this case. It is a violation of victims' rights to find out by chance that her offender is out on the street again without having been notified, nor given participation in the decision making process of early release. ...and from my stance in my battle for victims rights in Puerto Rico, in Katherine Callaway's case, without having the opportunity to review how a 50 to life sentence was reduced to 11 years in prison.

Katherine Angueira


CJ   August 31st, 2009 10:57 pm ET

I don't know but I think these questions are inappropriate. It's one thing to speculate about what went on in the mind this is insane and evil man, what the police were doing all this time or what her family are thinking.

But speculating about why did she:
wait 18 years before revealing her real identity?
help Garrido with his printing business?
have some form of Stockholm Syndrome?

She is the victim. Leave her alone. All this speculation seems to suggest that "she played a part" or was complicit.

We do not know what went on and even after she tells, she will still probably be unable to tell us the full horror of it. We do not know if he killed other (male?) children she gave birth to and what unimaginable things he threatened her with. He may have threatened to go after her family. We will never understand what she went through, because the psychological trauma is unimaginable.

There was a BACKLASH against Natascha Kampusch who was kidnapped by Priklopil when she was 10, in Austria. People may believe her behavior to be odd, but they weren't held in a secret cellar for 8 years now were they?

What we as the public tend to be experts at, is changing our minds, passing judgement and thinking we could've done better. So let's not this time.


Pete   August 31st, 2009 10:57 pm ET

No problem Pat.

Thanks again for the fine work you do. Only wish the others that are free from prosecution were under your watch.

Best to you.


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 10:59 pm ET

@ Pat

I fully understand what you are saying. For a couple of years, I worked as a senior social worker in ER – sex crimes. Yes, I was the one who removed children from unsafe homes where children were being sexually abused. I worked O/T with no pay, sometimes up to a full 24 hours in a 24 hour day. We were the first out to the house. We called the police when it was dangerous or we needed to remove a child. I moved back to my current job the beginning of this year,

Pete:

If you write a book, Larry will definitely interview you! another reason to write a book


Pete   August 31st, 2009 11:08 pm ET

CJ, you are right. She is a victim. People sometimes play a mental game of what they would do. The reality, likely the same as the victim did. More so is that even those that are not held captive will act the same. I've heard of priests who had overseen a marriage ceremony of one of his victims. Later the victim blew him in, much later when the victim was 60.

Most have no understanding of trauma. Your mind will avoid at all costs the memories. Doesn't mean you do not remember, just that without your control your mind dispels it. It is a self protective mechanism that kicks in to preserve some sense of sanity.

As reasoning touches a memory, the mind will hop quickly to a different thought. The mind continues doing this and sometimes to the point that only a heightened sense of emotion steps in. many victims have committed suicide, not because of a lost love or money, but a baseline trauma caused earlier.

We likely will not catch the most violent pedophiles unless we change laws.

As I post from time to time; “We can teach our children to tell us everything, but if they never come home, they can tell us nothing.”


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 11:10 pm ET

@ Katherine Angueira

You work as a social community psychologist to develop and lobby for public policy to strengthen victim’s rights. That is exactly what we need! Great Job!
California is broke! Between big corrupt business, top heavy governments, and everyone having their hand out looking for free money, it’s a real mess here!

@ Pete:

I definitely admire and respect your willingness to work. I wish everyone would


Dodie ~ California   August 31st, 2009 11:26 pm ET

@ CKelly

The APA also removed sociopaths from the DSM III, and created anti-social personality disorder. So I am not surprised! I think sociopaths should be in the DSM IV-TR

Personally, I would like to see a category in the DSM for A_ _ hole!!!


Jan Britton   August 31st, 2009 11:39 pm ET

I think life is going to be very difficult for this young lady – in reality when she was kidnapped she was probably told if she tried to get away or tried anything – her family would be killed and she would be killed. This is a normal statement for hideous fruitcakes to keep control. And, after a while, she just does'nt know any difference. God be with her and her true and loving family. Our prayers are with you -

Jan Britton
El Paso, Texas


amy c   August 31st, 2009 11:39 pm ET

dodie
couldn't agree with you more!!!!


CJ   August 31st, 2009 11:40 pm ET

Hi Pete,

I just read your story. I'm terribly sorry that you had to endure what you did, I think you are very brave.

People don't have to go to war to get PTSD. You can go through life completely dead inside and nobody even knows. You just pretend. To add insult to injury you get physical manifestations such as chronic fatigue syndrome and the pretending just got harder. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) really helps.

To be honest, I wonder how any kids get to adulthood without being abused. Whether it's relatives, school teaches, priests, they are often deliberately in positions of trust and pedophilia is rampant.

Perhaps I'm naive, but when I have kids, I'll do as the Obamas do, and as everyone used to do in times gone by. Nanny or no nanny, I'll get my mother to help. No boarding school, no summer camp, no staying at relatives. My mother raised me. Ergo she is the only one I know I can definitely trust with my kids. The world is just too wicked and even though you can't prevent everything you can try and prevent some.


amy c   August 31st, 2009 11:53 pm ET

cj
you protect protect and protect some more. But that alone is not enough. You have to talk, talk, and talk too. The truth of the matter is that you can't protect them as well as you would like to. You have to educate them on the evils of the world. Teach them that they should not be touched my anyone (including yourself and your mother) in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. And work hard to keep good communication between yourself and your children so that they know that they can come to you if anything were to ever happen and that you would not blame them in anyway. Believe it or not children often think that when bad things happen its their fault and the their parents will be upset with them. And fear is the main reason that most children do not come forward and tell someone about the abuse they are induring. So protect, educate, and communicate!!!


amy c   August 31st, 2009 11:59 pm ET

cj
wasn't impling that you or your mother would ever do anything in that nature! its just that if they understand that not even the closest people in thier lives are not allowed to do such things then they will really understand that nobody else in this world is either.


Pat M   September 1st, 2009 12:00 am ET

My heart goes out to Katie Calloway Hall and the Dugard Family. I can't even imagine the pain and heartache these families have been through.

I hope Katie's life will be more joyful now given that this very disturbed, sick man will finally be locked away for good. My thoughts and prayers are with the Dugard Family that they will once again enjoy being together as a family and that Jaycee and her daughters will be able to live a normal family life again.

I can't even imagine how this man was able to remain free for as long as he did or how the Parole Officer and Police could have missed those sheds out back after being told about them by a neighbour! Their insight could have made the difference of Jaycee having a normal life versus losing 18 years and the present trauma she will likely experience! How truly unfortunate they didn't have the foresight and thoroughly investigate the residence!


June   September 1st, 2009 12:18 am ET

I wish interviewers like you and you would stop asking the question"How Did that make you feel"? Put yourself in Katie's husbands place. Would you like that asked of you? How do you think it made him feel. He Married her so he must have felt compasion for her.


CJ   September 1st, 2009 12:24 am ET

hey amy, no offense taken!

You're absolutely right!


sal cottone   September 1st, 2009 12:48 am ET

Larry the gur on the right said there should be laws in place so he knows who he is doing busness with, there is if he is paying some one for services rendered he should have tge Federal tax number on file. was he paying him off the books


glenn mcnatt   September 1st, 2009 12:49 am ET

What about Garrido's wife? Why did she allow her husband to do this? Was she a victim of "Stockholm syndrome" too?


Linda   September 1st, 2009 12:51 am ET

What the hell kind of question is that, Larry, asking Katie's husband if he 'ever had any reservations about marrying her'??? How do you think that made Katie feel after what she went through with Garrido? You need to apologize to her.


Julie Crawford   September 1st, 2009 12:54 am ET

By the way Larry, you NEVER get over being raped. It lives with you and is always under the surface.


Marva Rogers   September 1st, 2009 12:57 am ET

Mr. King: It is my opinion that this man was allowed to get away undetected as a result of being a WHITE MALE. If this had been a BLACK OR HISPANIC MALE, he would have been taken out the first time around by being shot or jailed for life. This is the way of America and it is very sad. Please understand that I am a 60+ African American Great Grand mother and I am not a biased person. But I have seen this over the course of my life time. Thank you


Louis E.   September 1st, 2009 3:25 am ET

Note to Marva Rogers...I believe Garrido is Hispanic.


Cherry Simpson   September 1st, 2009 6:51 am ET

Very good show. I hope you'll have Phillip's first wife on also. Phillip started this criminal behavior long ago as a batterer and rapist.

I was shocked but sadly not surprised to hear DOC say they were proud of the parole officer who did such an incompetent job. Also I felt the DOC representative was not 100% truthful when Jaycee's father asked him about Garrido's parole violation.

See below news story:
Garrido violated federal parole, stayed free
Available federal and state parole records show that Phillip Garrido was released from a Nevada prison in 1988 only to violate his federal parole in California five years later.

But Garrido, suspected of kidnapping Jaycee Lee Dugard from South Lake Tahoe in 1991, served just a four months in federal prison for the parole violation in 1993.
Nevada officials were never informed of his parole violation.

“If we had been notified of that we would have done a retake,” said Gail Powell, spokeswoman for the Nevada Department of Public Safety. She said he would have been brought back to serve the remainder of his sentence in Carson City.
“We were never informed,” she said. “I don’t know why.”

The record shows:
• Garrido served 11 years of a federal kidnapping sentence in Kansas before being released to Nevada State Prison in January 1988.

• Garrido, who had been sentenced to 50 years on federal kidnapping charges, was sent to Nevada after his release to serve a state sentence of five years to life for sexual assault. Because his 11 years in the federal prison counted as time served, he was eligible for parole as soon as he arrived in Carson City on Jan. 22, 1988.

• On Aug. 1, 1988, the Nevada Parole Board, by a 3-2 vote released Garrido. He was technically on parole in Nevada, but federal parole took precedence and he moved to California.

• He remained on federal parole until 1988, when the federal hold ended, Nevada officials said. His Nevada parole was still in effect, but the supervision fell to the California Department of Parole and Probation because he resided in that state and the two states have a cooperative agreement.

• Federal records show Garrido violated his federal parole in 1993, but Nevada officials were not informed and didn’t know about the violation until being asked about it by the Reno Gazette-Journal on Friday.

Powell said Garrido met his wife while he was serving time at the federal penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kansas. Phillip and Nancy Garrido are now facing 29 felony counts related to Dugard’s kidnapping, rape and 18-year imprisonment.


Larry Simpson   September 1st, 2009 7:03 am ET

No one seems to know what he did to violate the parole. (More incompetence) The authorities know he is a life parolee and they don't pull his records and report it to the State of Nevada? (More incompetence)

The parole officer never looks into the felon's work or check to see if it's a legit business? Where did he house the press? In the house? How did he dispose of the toxic chemicals used in printing and cleaning a press? How could there have been proper ventilation to safely run a press inside a house?

His mind and those living in that house have probably been effected by breathing those chemicals for how many years.

What about joint tax returns did it show the business as a legal business? Wouldn't you think a parole officer would look at a sex crimes felon who becomes a printer a little closer?

Our justice system is becoming like MacDonald's who do they have filling these jobs and can't they get anything right?

Media and Hollywood quit depicting them as all geniuses cause they're NOT!!


Joe Fattal   September 1st, 2009 2:14 pm ET

I think Jaycee suffered from " I still like you, but I have to go home now". Look at where she was living, I believe that woman could have jump that fence with her two daughters and left long time ago.


Rona Narvey   September 1st, 2009 7:38 pm ET

Larry King's interview with the woman who was raped by Philip Garrido last night had me terribly upset. He actually asked her husband how he could have married her after knowing of her being raped for 8 hours straight but yet he said nothing to the chief of corrections office as to why he and his team hopelessly screwed up and allowd Philip Garrido to roam he streets and kidnap women freely without them having a clue. How dumb could they be-dumb and incompetant. The interview was a sham.... so bad


Dodie ~ California   September 1st, 2009 11:45 pm ET

These People will NEVER... NEVER ... NEVER change. This is an excellent example of the MESS our system is in!

We need to have the prisoners work hard to pay for their keep; so the prisons do NOT drain the tax payers.

((((( NO RELEASE OF SEX OFFENDERS, RAPIST, MURDERS ))))))

This case has demonstrated to all those sex offenders, rapists, murders that they can do what ever they want to the public and get away with it!!!

The USA is More DANGEROUS in this area than all of Europe and Asia. Why are we tolerating this crap?????

In order for these people to change they have to do the following:

1. Fully look at their behaviors
2. Take responsibility for their behaviors
3. Grow up!
When they do the above, they will most often see themselves as a monster and feel guilty. Only then, can the healing begin.
The problem is most people are stuck on step 1, Therefore, change will never happen!!!

Most delusional and psychotic men are NOT sex offenders!!! This is NO excuse! He has destroyed Jaycee and her entire family’s lives!

((( How many people's lives must they destroy before we make changes? )))


Ms Kymm   September 2nd, 2009 1:08 am ET

As for MJ you all need to appreciate him for the gift he was, your opinions of negativity only says you have problems. Let the star restin peace. He gave you his life and look at you give him back for his life work. You all make me sick.


Ms Kymm   September 2nd, 2009 1:21 am ET

As for MJ; you all need to appreciate him for the gift he was to you. your opinions of negativity only says you have problems. Let the star rest in peace. He gave you his life and look at theyou repay him with for his life work. You all make me sick

In the case of the sickwho kidnapped the little girl, raped her, fathered two kids, and brainwashed his victims, he needs to be released in general population in prison. There is no death sentence worthy of the mayhem and destruction he has caused.he deserves to be tourchered the rest of his life and fed rats and water, then I would feel bad for the rats.


Katherine Angueira   September 2nd, 2009 5:46 pm ET

In response to your critique of Larry King's interview and the information I provided with respect to the need to analyze the Parole Board's negligence and total disrespect to its duty and responsibility in protecting the community, I think Mr. King should produce a program analyzing these angles to place responsibilty where it belongs. Apparently, the first rape survivor is not aware of her rights before the State's legal apparatus and how she could have actively participated to legally question the lack of participation she could have had in the adjudication of this parole. She should have been maintained informed, before his parole and after. She should have been given access to review the totality of his prisoners' records and parole information in order to scrutinize their job.

On the other hand, from the public information provided at this point, further investigation has to be carried out to question the supervisory methods used by the parole officer which apparently did not include a thorough visit to the suspects' home. I believe the State's duty is to confront parolees with the reality that they are not regular citizens with an intimacy expectation. Their homes and cars, where they live should be places that on surprise visits should be thoroughly searched. It is a complete farce, to legitimize that parole officers should depend only on what the parolee may state without further investigative skills in delving much more thoroughly. On the otherhand, Corrections can not deposit its supervisory responsibilty back to the community by requiring neighbors to supervise and inform them of situations that may be concealed to them on purpose. Not only do neighbors not have the legal right to invade parolees ' privacy' by searching their homes, but at times are fearful of becoming involved in a violent situation that apparently the State has not dealt with correctly.

Having gone through years of actively scrutinizing in Puerto Rico how Correctional programs dysfunction, and having been successful in promoting the removal of an entire Parole Board because of its incompliance with my legal rights as a rape victim survivor, I am available to participate in this analysis.

Katherine Angueira


olgeya   December 10th, 2009 10:43 am ET

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